S01E44:When We Suck at Selling Ourselves

In this week’s episode, Samantha and Matilda figure out how they can be their most authentic self in their messaging.

Next week, Sam and Matilda will be doing the hard work and reading the results of their ads... and trying to figure out the next steps to success...

Where to find Sam and Matilda:

SAM IG: @sammowrimo

Website: www.samantha-cummings.com

Book to start with: Curse of the Wild (Moons & Magic Book 1) https://amzn.eu/d/3QHym3m

Most recent book: Heart of the Wolf (Moons & Magic Book 2) https://amzn.eu/d/4HecH3a

MATILDA IG: @matildaswiftauthor

Website: MatildaSwift.com

Book to start with: https://books2read.com/TheSlayoftheLand (book #1 of The Heathervale Mysteries)

Most recent book: https://books2read.com/ButterLatethanNever (book #3 of The Slippery Spoon Mysteries)

Mentioned on the show:

Nothing this week - but check out previous episodes for helpful links. 

Transcript:

Welcome to your next step of the Self Publishing Mountain.

I'm Matilda Swift, author of Quintessentially British Cozy Mysteries.

And I'm Samantha Cummings, author of Young Adult Books about Magic, Myths and Monsters.

I've written the books, changed their covers, tweaked their blurbs, tried tools from a dozen ad courses, and I'm still not seeing success.

Now, we're working together to plot and plan our way from barely making ends meet to pulling in a living wage.

Join us on our journey where we'll be mastering the pen to snag that paycheck.

Hello and welcome to Pen to Paycheck Authors podcast.

I'm Matilda Swift here with my co-host, Samantha Cummings, and we're here to write our way to financial success.

We're two indie authors with over a dozen books between us, and still a long way to go towards the quick day job dream.

If that sounds familiar, listen along for our mastery through missteps journey.

Each week, we cover a topic to help along the way, and this week's topic is making authentic sales messages.

Before that, what are your wins and the whinges of the week?

Oh, well, I don't actually have that many whinges, but I always do like to have a little whinge.

So I'm going to be one of those people that whinges about fireworks.

As much as I love fireworks, I'm a bit whingy because my dog does not, and she is not having a good time this weekend, so I feel a little bit bad for her.

And just in general, the wildlife outside, which must be not having a good time.

And that's my old woman whinge of the day.

My whinge this week are, I am finally, I've broken the curse, my car is fixed, I'm back on the road.

And I also have just had a great, really great weekend where I've been out and about.

I'm just talking before we started the podcast.

I've been to Alton Towers.

I was there for roughly eight hours on the Sunday.

It was their last.

If anyone is not familiar with.

It's a big theme.

Apologies, yes, it's a big theme park.

It was their last Halloween extravaganza weekend day thing.

So it was open from 10 till nine.

And yeah, we hammered it.

We were there, it went pitch black, scarily, like really weirdly dark there.

And we were on rides in the night time.

It was so good.

But as an old lady, I have like, I've just suffered all day because I'm so tired.

But it was fun.

I loved it.

And I am still kind of like riding that high of spending hours screaming yesterday, which apparently makes me feel good.

So that's good to know.

How about you?

I'm going to go, yeah, I'm going to go in reverse order.

So I'm going to go wins first.

I had some, I made some really good progress on my writing this week.

So I'm at the editing phase for book one of my new series.

When I do that, I set myself a two week time period.

And just before I spend the weekend reading through the whole book, writing myself notes, and the notes are as if they're to somebody else.

So I write down like top of a chapter, this is a boring chapter, make it more interesting.

And I try to forget the fact that I have to read that and do that later.

So I had that this weekend.

And I also had a couple of different Cozy Mysteries Writer friends who sent me some feedback as well.

And one had a long meeting with me to talk through things.

So excellent, very productive weekend.

And in fact, it's really been really useful to do this book slightly differently to normal.

So I would normally write a quick, relatively rough draft, knowing that there'll be whole chapters I will come and chop apart and rewrite in this stage.

But because I wanted to send the book to a couple of friends, I had in fact done a pre-editing stage.

I spent the best part of a week on it.

And I pulled out all those chapters that were just like absolutely boring, irrelevant chapters that I write for reasons I can't fathom.

And I put in more stakes and it was really useful.

And then when I've come to it for this two weeks, actually, I think I'm only going to spending probably one week on the edits rather than two.

So it's been quite interesting to try and do it in two separate halves, to do like the big, big structural stuff in one chunk, and then maybe come and focus more on the language in another chunk, which I try and do both at once normally.

And yeah, I might try and look at change my process.

Anyway, so that's my win.

But my winch, I think I've got like, all time podcast record holding, unbeatable winch this week, which yeah, like this is a new bar.

And if like fireworks, schmire works.

This week, a truck drove into my house.

And not like, you know, a truck like if you're an American, like you have a cute little flatbed truck.

No, like a lorry, like a haulage vehicle that was on its way carrying, I don't know what, presumably barrels of concrete.

I live on a road that's, you know, connects big towns, but it's not busy.

It's like a two-lane little road that goes through country villages.

But because it connects relatively big places, does get lorries down here in some buses.

And I do often think it's quite close to my house.

And then on Thursday, it was too close to my house.

And fortunately, I live in a very sturdily built stone house.

But it is tall and thin.

So a big, very significant looking part of my front of my house has been knocked sideways.

And my front door was trapped shut.

And I was, I only have one door because the back of my house, I live in an eccentric village, which seems cute until you're then trapped in your house because the back of your house is a story high.

Because the valley is so steep that you live in an over-dwelling.

So we had one door and I it was it was trapped shut by a cave in.

I don't know you call it a house.

A stone collapse on a wall collapse.

So I had to get fortunately was able to get somebody to come out to rescue me.

And it has been the universe telling me to ask for help more, I think, because I had to ask for help for somebody who I was I was in convenience in them like I knew that this was a big job for someone to do.

It turns out there's not such a thing as an emergency door fixer.

It's not a thing.

So I just had to really prey on someone's kindness.

Please come and let me out of my house.

I just I know this isn't your job, but I just need to get out of my house.

And then the next day, I walked down to the local stonemasons, which very lucky that I live in a village where you have a local stonemasons.

And I went down and I just showed them a picture of my house and I was like, I think my house is going to collapse on me when I walk out the door.

Can you please help?

And they just sent around some men to put some sort of temporary scaffolding up for nothing, just to help, because I just relying on the kind of strangers this week.

So I have asked for a lot of help, which has been great for my ability to ask for help.

And I'm just going to tell the universe that I have heard that lesson.

I've taken it in, do not press any more gigantic lorries into my house.

I've learned it.

I'm done.

So yes, it's probably the big old wind of the week.

Yeah, that's probably like the biggest lesson.

That's such a loud lesson to have happen to you.

Like I feel like my like my little car lesson where I was like without without a car for a couple of weeks is like a very gentle way to say, like you like you could you could be more self reliant.

And I heard that.

And it was a very easy thing to learn.

You could accept more help.

That's what the universe is telling you.

Yes, yes, it could.

But it also taught me to be like more flexible with like my arrangements in life.

Like I could take a train.

I don't need a car.

Like I can I can do things.

So I have like maybe a couple of lessons within my small thing.

Yours is just that might as well just punch you in the face.

I mean, I felt punch in the face.

Yes.

I would also say about this.

It was so interesting in that we talked about a couple weeks ago.

I feel like in real life, I can fix any problem.

I absolutely fixed it.

Like a truck drove into my house and I was like, well, that's that's unfortunate.

But I guess I'm just gonna have to fix this.

And I've made a million phone calls, taken a lot of photographs.

I have contacted every person conceivable, documented things, like found out all the processes, and I'm doing it.

And yet before the podcast started, I was whinging and feeling powerless about my ads.

And it's like that is such a small thing.

Inside publishing and like a literal lorry drove into my house and I was like, I'll sort it out.

Yeah.

So just, yeah, I get back to the universe.

I said like, yeah, I just, I need better coping mechanisms inside publishing.

I need to find ways to solve problems because I am so good at solving problems.

I can solve any problem in my real life.

Yeah.

Whatever the universe can tell me, I got it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Let's not tempt it anymore though.

I mean, I think asteroid falling at my house, whatever, I fix it.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

I'll just start chipping it apart and I'll start selling it.

Exactly.

I'd be making bank.

So I feel like this kind of does lead us into our topic of the week, which is talking about or talking about, say, making authentic sales messages.

And I kind of feel that there is a segue here.

So what does this mean for you?

So I'm making the segue.

Okay.

You're making the segue.

I think, I think you'll understand.

Like I'm sending it to you.

I see.

Well, I think what's interesting actually is that I, once I was past the shock of it, I already knew I was going to write about it in my newsletter, which in the past I would not have done.

Like I really would not have felt like I wanted to share something a bit negative about my real life.

I think I kept things very surface level.

And I've gone to a weekly newsletter this year, and it's really felt like, oh, it's a really nice way to express myself and to feel like people appreciate this message.

I get replies, I get great open rates and good click through rates.

And the more I've put in that's personal, the better it's felt, and the better I feel kind of promoting my books.

And I think that's part of authenticity.

One other thing I want to talk about today that isn't necessarily a segue from this, but is definitely the thing that is top of my mind at this topic is enthusiasm.

And I think, and enthusiasm for your own work, and we've talked about it a lot of different ways.

And in fact, we talked about it today in the Cozy Mysteries Clubhouse.

But I think for me, I definitely struggle to be like, have that cheerleader vibe to my own work.

But the more authentic I get, the more I feel like I can be genuinely enthusiastic about things and be like, I'm sharing about my updates in my book regularly.

I'm excited to share the new series of people.

So I'm definitely feeling more authentic by communicating more and telling people more in a way that feels comfortable to me.

And I don't feel that we're in social media because it isn't a space I feel that authentic.

And I don't quite know how to do that.

But I think there's things we can talk about here.

But yeah, I think having that regular outlet of my newsletter helps me know when stuff's happening in my real life.

Like, oh yeah, I'm going to talk about my newsletter.

That's the thing I want to share with people.

There's not much that comes up that I don't think I could share in there now.

And I've got kind of a format down.

And you know, I think I am quite a cozy person.

Like one of the things I did this weekend to get over this stress was I baked.

And so I'll be putting that in my newsletter.

And I also received the plate that I painted to match the rug that I made recently.

So that will be going in my newsletter.

So yeah, I'm definitely just leading into the fact that I am a cozy person.

And I'm going to share that in my communications.

But I don't think I share enough channels in or in quite enough ways that lead to sales.

I think I'm getting towards feeling authentic, but maybe not in a way that is connected to sales.

Yes.

How about you?

Yeah, I think that, interestingly, I find myself more authentic on social media.

And I've really worked on that this year.

I've tried to really just lean into my own personality, to try and get my personality across the tiny squares in a phone, which is more difficult than I think you think it's going to be when you first start posting on social media.

It's like to be yourself, also to try and make yourself engaging in a way.

And I think I've done a pretty good job of that this year.

I have definitely made some good connections with people.

I've got the same people that show up often to comment, and I have good chats back and forth.

And obviously, I'm not doing big numbers on Instagram, in no way, shape or form, but I do find it a really nice place to be.

I like the face that I put forward on there.

I enjoy doing the silly skits, and I've talked about this before, I'm doing the lip-synchy stuff.

I really enjoy doing that.

My family loves, just as a little segue, my family loves that for some reason.

Every time I see, I've got my older family on Facebook, and the post is automatically go to Facebook.

And my older generation family, like my aunts and my great aunts and stuff, see them and are constantly telling me that, I should be an actress because I'm so good at being silly and skits.

Like, yes, clearly I know that I should be an actress, but maybe another time when I finish writing books.

So I really enjoy all that stuff.

I find my newsletter, for some reason, as much as I love to write it, I just feel like I don't know.

I don't feel like I've got a good practice for it.

I don't feel like what I'm saying is like beneficial, or people really are interested in hearing it.

That's definitely where my struggle is.

I could, because as a newsletter, you kind of feel like it should be, well, I feel like it should be salesy, but it also shouldn't.

I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out my standing on the newsletter and what I feel comfortable putting in.

And how much of it should be salesy, how much of it shouldn't be salesy.

So that's still a part that I'm struggling with.

So, yeah, I need to take a cue.

There's different personal things to share.

I think in Cozy Mysteries, there's so much around the genre that's about things like baking and crafts, things that are really, and like books, things that are really easy to share in newsletters.

Whereas there are other genres where, like if you're a sci-fi writer, what are you sharing?

I think the books you read recently, right?

That's the thing you could share, but it's definitely harder to see what from your day-to-day life you can share, that's going to feel like it connects to sci-fi readers.

We talked about this before in the idea of you want to give people a feeling of what they're going to get from your books.

And if I know the feeling that I want from my books is like this sort of eccentric humor, those feelings that you can get across in the news after in a day-to-day communication.

You want it to feel like a friend is kind of sending you a funny little message.

And that really aligns well with my branding.

Do you remember the words that you wanted to communicate from your branding exercise that we did ages ago?

Yes, vaguely.

Because I really wanted to focus on, my whole shtick was magic, monsters and myths.

Yeah, I guess I hadn't really thought about that.

What is it that I'm trying to say to people in emails, rather than by my books, which feels too cold and crass?

Like magic and monsters, there's a thing that you're looking to build authority in.

I really need to talk about that.

Yeah.

But then, do you want to build authority, or do you want to build a personal connection?

Because I think a bit of both.

I don't think they're the same thing.

I think I'm going to be really weird and geeky and say, at some point in my life, I kind of wanted people to see me as the buffy character in the story or in life as being this person of authority and a cool person and somebody who can kick ass because I kind of can.

And now I'm starting to think maybe I'm Giles and how does that change my approach to talking to people?

To me, like that's the thing to talk about in the newsletter, right?

It's like realizing I'm the Giles on the buffy.

And that's not something you should do.

That's the thing.

I can imagine a person in your genre could make a whole newsletter about, right?

But when that's quite a personal insight sort of newsletter, that's quite a chatty tone, and you're having to sort of create a jokey feeling and create tell a long story.

Like, is that the format you want for your newsletter, which will make people kind of see you as a person who guides a narrative, who's in the genre, who knows about the touch points, who also is a little bit self-deprecating?

Is that how you're able to see you?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways to go about it.

And it's really, I think maybe for you holding off, and this is just, you know, armchair psychology, I think holding off, doing a lot of expansion with newsletter is maybe to do with not wanting to commit to being a certain persona.

Because I think newsletters are so in your wheelhouse, right, you are a hilarious genius, as we know on this podcast, hilarious genius all the time.

And I think you are, those videos where you're lip syncing and you're, they're so your vibe, like you're able to create this sort of lighthearted, fun tone.

And you're always picking the right things to sync along to.

And I can see that person is going to be really good at writing newsletters.

So while you're not doing it because you're not wanting to commit to like, this is, are you saying like, I don't have enough authority to kind of build that authority?

Are you saying I don't want to commit to making a long form narrative newsletter or short form like life update one because I don't want to reveal things about myself?

Yeah, I don't think I'm opposed to revealing things about myself.

I think it's just old habits die hard really, because I used to write blogs and I used to do like email newslettery things like go way back to when emails first became a thing because I'm that old.

I set up a news like the first thing I did when I got an email address is set up a newsletter, got all my friends' email addresses, built a format for the newsletter.

And it was effectively something like, it was all focused on the seven men I was going to marry.

So leapfrog myself to be married to someone really rich and famous.

It was just a joke.

And so that's kind of like silly, I don't know, like just completely my stupid humor.

I think like I just have that ingrained of this, like I, it's almost like I just want to blog, but that's not really what I want my email to be.

So I feel stuck.

Like, well, if I'm not writing it like a blog.

Yeah, I will.

See, I do.

Whenever I send emails out, I do feel like they are more like a little blog post, but I don't think I've, this is just like, because I am soft deprecating, I just don't think people are that interested in me.

I think that is holding you back because I, you are so good at communicating that style, that like you're looking for, I don't think the entire world is that interested in you, right?

Of course they're not.

Like the entire population of the universe is not that interested.

But the people who are that interested in you would be so interested.

They'd be like, oh my goodness, I found my person.

I want to read all their books.

Like you're looking to create a fandom.

You're not looking to say like, I'm trying to broadly please everyone all the time.

What's the point of that?

Yeah.

Yeah, because I never want to please everyone.

I can't believe I've got this far in life and I don't know if I've got like real enemies.

Like surely, like where are the real enemies?

So I'm happy to not please people.

I'm looking for my arch nemeses everywhere I go, just waiting for that storyline.

If you're listening to this and you would like to be my arch nemeses, please let me know.

I just want a bit of drama in my life, okay?

And then I can write about it in my email.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe that's what I should be working on.

But I think it's interesting that we both have different things where we feel comfortable.

And maybe I would say in both of those, there's, we could be doing more sales.

And I think we have looked at what a few people, we often look at people on social media, we share people that we think, you know, they're doing such a different thing to me.

They're doing such a strong sales thing.

And not, they're clearly not feeling the same way about it that I would feel about it.

Because I think in a newsletter, I feel comfortable putting a book in there.

And I'm never selling it.

I'm never saying like, this is the book you want.

This is the book you like, they'll solve all your problems.

You feel bored right now, read this book.

I'm always putting in some like fun stories, you know, recipes maybe, a thing that's happened, an update on my cats.

And then there'll be one section each that you read about a book.

And it's often like it's on a deal, it's title time of year.

It's almost just like, here's a bit of information.

And I've tried to make them more positive, like pushing myself set in my comfort zone.

But it still feels authentic to me to say, oh, it's autumn, cosy up with this autumnal book, this will make you feel cosy.

And that's true.

But I'm never, I feel like I'm not enthusiastic enough about my own writing, because part of that is like, it doesn't feel very English.

But when we talk about people who are really enthusiastic about their writing, and it doesn't feel like the worst thing ever for them to be doing it.

But it feels like if I did it, it would feel awful.

It's definitely, that's definitely obviously like a hurdle that we have to overcome, because I actually think I find it worse when somebody is too, too negative on their own.

I'd much rather somebody be over the top, like, oh my God, I love this book that I wrote.

I think you're going to love it too.

I would much rather that and maybe feel a little bit of cringe about it than be the person who's like, oh, what I wrote is like, no one's going to buy it.

No one likes it.

I think that's way worse.

Yeah, it's just about finding like, how do you find the middle ground?

I mean, I personally love all the books that I write.

My problem is that I feel like, like, I just have bad taste.

And I'm okay with that, so, you know.

That is such a huge problem.

Okay.

I know.

I write books that I like, okay?

Yeah, I would much rather be-

I've been doing more research recently.

I'm reading people who come up in my auto books, and people who are maybe like one step away from that.

So people I wouldn't necessarily pick to read their books because I choose them because I like them.

I'm trying to choose people who I think in various different ways, readers are connecting us either at one move or directly.

And can I read their books to get a sense of what it is that readers are connecting about with these two?

And I've read some books recently that I know outsell mine, and I don't think they're as good.

But I think I'm trying to objectively really understand that and take it in.

Because you asked me a really good question recently where you said, you know, when I was talking about not feeling maybe confident enough in my book, I was just like, do you think other writers in Cozy Mysteries are better writers than you are writing better books?

And I was like, maybe, maybe not.

It was really hard to say no.

I do feel like my writing is good.

I think the area in which I maybe have been falling down is not being to market enough.

And that's fine.

I'm working on that.

And I think my new series is more to market.

And I think I would only keep improving in that area.

But I have read a couple of other series recently that I know are more successful than mine.

That are not better written and that are not more to market.

And the people are just better at marketing than me.

And I just feel like I think whenever I look at other writers that I think are doing things like the same way that I do them, as in like the people who really have a great newsletter, and they communicate with their readers, like the same level of personal detail.

You know, they're not sharing, you know, what they found in the shower that morning.

They're sharing like what delicious breakfast they ate.

Like they're that level of personal.

Those people, I think, they're no better than me.

And also, they, you know, they're not more authentic than me, but they're often doing really well.

And the main difference is they're just really enthusiastic about their books.

They just really love their books and believe that their books are what the person wants.

And I think I feel like I would be grateful if someone would read my book, rather than I think people should be grateful for having the chance to read my book.

I don't quite know how you get there and still feel authentic.

I think that's it for me.

It's like to me, being authentic means being realistic, but those two things are similar, but very distinct.

And I'm merging them in my mind.

Epiphany, this is not really where this episode I think has been a real ramble, because both of us are like, I'm not quite sure this is the topic that I need to be talking about, but I see what it is now.

It is how do we get from authenticity to sales?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that, I know we've said this before, apologies to any male listeners.

We don't, I don't think we have that many looking at stats, but apologies to you male authors, but I do sometimes think, what would I do if I was a man?

Because I have never once seen a male author on social media or anywhere, hide in the shadows when he's written a book.

He's never, he's never like, oh, I've secretly written this book.

I'm not sure if I'm going to tell anybody about it.

It's always like, I've written this book, it's on Amazon, and I'm going to be the number one bestseller, and they go above and beyond to make sure that that's the thing that everybody knows about them.

And I worked with a guy who, he was such a fun character, he was such a funny guy.

And he found out that I was a writer, and he was like, oh, I've also written a book.

And I bought it, a few people that we kind of released at the same time a few years ago.

And he, it was just like a hobby for him.

But he released the book and he was shouting about it on Facebook and got so many sales.

Just from like telling people every post, this book that I've written, this book that I've written is so good.

And he did, he got quite a few sales, not like loads because it was just a little hobby.

And he's like moved on from there now because he's, you know, got other things to do.

So whatever, but I'm sure that he beat me in sales just because he was talking about it so much.

And I read it and it was, I don't think I'll ever listen to this, but it was not good.

And he didn't care.

It was not good.

It was just like, it was, he had an idea for a story.

He wrote it down, no editing, just one shot through, put a cover on it, released it.

No, and absolutely unashamedly, no, no.

But he was just like, well, this is how books are made.

You just write it down and you put it out there.

And yeah, and I love that kind of, that enthusiasm that he had was so without, it was just so untinged by the reality of, like, what book marketing is.

It was just like, that was his passion project.

Really, writing a book is massive.

Like, it is enormous to write a book.

It is, it is, yeah.

Yeah, it is enormous to write a book.

I'm really surprised.

Yeah.

I'm surprised he did it.

I'm surprised he got through.

Almost all my friends did it too.

And I forget that it's a weird thing to write a book.

And if I, like, got chosen to be on the England women's football team, I'd be telling everyone, even if I was the worst on the team, I'd be like, guys, I got selected.

You will not believe this.

Come and watch me.

You're going to be so excited.

Knowing that it's a rare and unlikely thing.

I'd be telling everyone because, can you believe this?

Whereas for us, I think we have got very discerning tastes in books.

And like you're saying, you think you've got weird taste.

And I think, even though I have looked at other books and Cozy, I've been reading a lot of Cozy's this year.

And I have not come across books I think are consistently better than mine.

I'm not saying they're all awful.

I'm saying, I think I am very much capable of being in this group.

I have read some that I think that is better than my book.

And I would love to be that good.

And I think I can be that good one day.

And I have read many that I think that's rubbish.

And I've read loads I think about the same level as mine.

So knowing that, you know, that sort of...

I think being an authentic person to me feels like being honest and being like, my book's somewhere in the middle.

You probably like it.

But you know, there's no books out there.

Don't kill yourself.

And I don't know how to go...

But honestly, I think that's what this episode is about, right?

It's like, how do you go from being authentic to being like, authentic and...

You've got to read this, guys.

It's fantastic.

Because that's not me.

I'm not an enthusiast like a person.

But I think you are an enthusiast like a person because you were always so enthusiastic when you're talking to me about this.

And like on this podcast, I think you're really enthusiastic.

And when you come up with the story, and remember when we sat in our meeting, when we did our Mastermind meeting, and we were coming up with X meets Y and doing that whole thing, and we spent hours doing it.

And it was so exciting.

We were having such a good time.

And so I think that that enthusiasm and that excitement exists within you.

And you just have to point it in the right direction.

I think that maybe if you look at things like-

I feel physically uncomfortable thinking about this.

I know.

I can feel it in my body.

And that is a thing to overcome.

I'm not saying that's how I want to feel, but the second we approach the concept of I should tell the world about how great the book is.

I can whisper it in secret to you, that's one thing, but trying to find a way to to murder that authenticity I have in my online messaging with like, I genuinely am proud of everything that I did, and I think you will all love it too.

Like my whole body wants to like shrivel up, it's running like cocoon itself, like, ugh!

I, no, I'm so shriveled.

Like, shush, be quiet.

I've got this, I was going to say like, I've got this thing on my wall, which I will at some point start using, but I've like just been looking at it for ages, and I have not yet implemented it.

And it's like, it's just little reminders of what to say to people about my book in different ways.

And I've had it on my wall for months.

And at some point, I think I will internalize it, but I have not yet, like I haven't yet put it into practice.

But I have things like asking, like when you're posting about your book or emailing people about your book, trying to come up with the reason that your book is going to like solve a problem for a reader.

Whether it's like I always say for my books, it's my book, Curse of the Wild is really good to get you out of a reading slump because it's so, like just magical mayhem.

So I was like, it's a good, and people have said it to me before where it just like got them out of a reading slump because it was so fast paced, it was such an easy, fun read.

So I am trying to come up with these things that are like authentic, but also like has my own little, like has my personality injected into it.

I have other things like showing people why they need my book.

What's the other things I've got over here?

Like the emotion that it will generate, like the different emotional points of the book, that will be interesting to readers.

So the last one is about making an offer that you can't refuse.

And I have not figured out how, what question that is or how to answer it.

But because it's on the wall, I know that I've got all these different ways that I can look.

And when I'm doing my social media plan, it's just like a bit of guidance effectively.

So I can look at this kind of tactical way of doing messaging.

And hopefully it'll help me come up with my most authentic way to talk to people, but with like a bit of guidance, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I think I do need to make something more deliberate and tactical like this.

Because to me, I just feel like I don't use this at all.

Like I'm not doing anything like this.

And I don't see myself magically getting there.

I think I'm just looking away from the problem.

I'm being like, oh, my book will just sell themselves.

I'll just tell people they're there and then they'll be like, oh, that book's there, I'll buy that.

And I'm doing people a disservice because I would like to believe, that's the strongest I can say it today, I would like to believe that there are people who would really love my book, my new series.

I would like to be people who really love that.

And if they don't find it, then they're reading something that they don't like as much.

And that is my fault.

So I want to find a way to authentically and meaningfully convey to them what the book's about and how they can get engaged.

I do think there's a bit more to be said about enthusiasm, because this one is things where you know, you hear something from many different places, you hear it several times, and you're like, this is catching on my ear.

It's a thing.

It's just about being enthusiastic about your own book.

And I think, I know you said earlier, oh, I'm an enthusiastic person.

I just, I find it really hard to infuse about things that I have made or done.

Maybe that's it.

I'm trying to think what, maybe I can borrow a skull from somewhere else.

Because if I had made a really good cake, I would press on people and be like, oh, you got to try this.

It's delicious.

But I would say, it's a Nigella recipe, or it's got five types of chocolate in it.

Because those are things people are going to love.

But why am I doing that about a book?

I'm like, it's set in a bookstown.

Yeah, because I'm sure your, yeah, and your books probably do have five different types of chocolate in them.

At least, yes.

I'm just like, why don't I feel the same way?

Maybe that's what I need to think about, is like how to promote my book as if it's a cake.

Because, yeah, like even a cake that's just okay, it's a cake.

Like, of course you can like cake, it's delicious.

Yeah.

Even if it's like, oh, it's a little bit dry, but you know what, it's still good.

I don't have any emotional attachment to the cake's quality.

I did my best and you'll eat it and it'll be gone.

And same with books, right?

You'll read it and then it'll be gone, you'll forget about it in like a day or two after you finished it.

It's not going to be, I'm not trying to write War and Peace here.

And I don't know why I can't get that same enthusiasm about something I have, I guess, created and seen all the bad versions of.

But yeah, that's the thing I need to work on.

Yeah.

Especially when you get to the point where once it's been edited a million times, like that's your best version.

And that is the thing you should be the most proud of.

Like when you get to the end and you think this is like so much better than when I first started.

Even just saying that, like, like this book's come such a long way from the first draft to now.

Like you're in for a treat.

Yeah, I do like the idea of talking about your books in particular about as cakes.

Think of all the fun things you could do, like the ingredients that you could write out, which would result in the title of the book.

That would be a really fun marketing thing.

Yeah.

And it is interesting.

It does just feel so inauthentic to me to be like shilling my own books, right?

That's how it feels.

And yet I would not hesitate to.

And in fact, last week I took, I made some scones, I made them, I was testing the recipe for my books.

And I made some scones.

You know, there's a limit to how many scones I can eat.

The limit is large, but there is a limit.

So I took my scones to my writing group, to my roller skating group.

And I had not tasted the scones because I hadn't had time to eat one during the day.

I took them and I just trusted they were good.

And I just forced everyone to take one home.

I was like, take it.

It's a free scone.

It's going to be good.

It's a National Trust recipe.

How could it be wrong?

And I tasted it later.

They were excellent.

I've had several.

They were so good.

Excellent recipe.

Very well done National Trust.

But I did not hesitate.

Whereas like if I got a load of free books, and I have like to have got a load of my own books, I would never take the role of getting fruit, but like, guys, you're gonna love this.

Here's a free book.

Because not everyone likes my books, but not everyone likes, is that true?

Everyone does like scones, that's crazy.

But not everyone like to read history.

They must do.

Yeah.

But I think, I do think that more people, I think that more people who are willing to read anything than there are people who are really stuck to one genre.

I think if someone was given a book, they would read it.

And even if they didn't like it, they would probably still read it.

I would never, I know that people DNF books, but, and I know you do, but I would never DNF a book.

I just keep going because once I'm in a book, I'm just in a book, that's fine.

And if I don't enjoy it, I close it at the end and I think wasn't for me.

But I think that there are more people like that.

I really do.

I feel like I'm a part of the majority.

Maybe that's just like a weird way that I've just told myself so I don't feel so weird.

But yeah, I think that not as many people are that judgmental.

It just seems that way because that's the crowd that we're in or the crowd that we see online.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

So if I imagine that everyone is relatively predisposed to wanting to read this book, all I have to do is sell it to them and get them to take the cake.

Right?

Because it's like a free sample person in the supermarket.

Not everyone who walks past them is going to try the free sample.

They've got their own reasons for not doing it, but they should be...

Like, they gave away free food.

Why not be enthusiastic about it?

Even if it's just like some green juice.

They're still going to be like, tasty green juice.

Try it.

It's one of your five a day.

You'll feel good about it later.

There's some things you can say about green juice, even though you might be like, it's very green.

Why am I not the same about my books?

Yeah, because it doesn't matter.

I think it doesn't matter if you actually go off and do that and start trying to get everyone to buy your book, because I don't think that that's obviously a waste of time.

It is better to focus on the people who do read your genre.

But mentally, don't limit yourself to thinking that you're just trying to convince these people.

You need to be able to walk into a room and tell strangers that you wrote a book mentally.

Which I can't do, but I think I don't have enough enthusiasm.

And a big part of that is mindset.

I don't have enough enthusiasm.

I don't think people are going to be super excited to read my books.

Which I don't think is actually true.

I think there are lots of people, like I have on my wall, on my wall that you can't see, a bunch of reviews printed out that are so lovely, that people have written things that I wouldn't, I don't think I'm that enthusiastic about books.

Like they sent really, really positive things.

And I get so focused on being authentic, which I think is a reasonable thing to want to do.

And a way that feels good to me to kind of communicate I'm a part of a marketing method that I don't, I don't know, I'm just not pushing an authentic side of myself and an enthusiastic side of myself.

Yeah, because it's not really how I feel.

I don't truly feel like you're going to love this book.

I think like you might like it.

Some people would enjoy it.

And how do I get to that?

I think for me, I have to get to a stage where I genuinely feel like, I genuinely feel enthusiasm.

But I don't have to get there.

And I am a big believer in the whole fake it till you make it thing.

I think that you just have to pretend.

At the start of this year, I would have said, like, I would, I feel like I wouldn't have believed that I would start, would have started doing the things I've been doing online.

That sounds really dodgy.

Like, I don't mean an only fans.

I just mean the amount of silly selling feet pictures online.

No, I just don't, at the start of this year, I don't think I would have believed that now at this point of the year that I would have been posting the things I've been posting online with such enthusiasm.

Because I didn't really believe that my work was great at the start of this year.

And then I started getting like quite nice reviews and things.

And I really did, I feel like I really have faked it till I made it, to do some good English.

I faked it till I made it.

And I do think that that is a good strategy.

It can be authentic if you want, if you're wanting to make the change.

So even if you feel like your excitement isn't real, but you'd want to be that person who's that excited, I think that that's still the right path to be on.

I think that's better than doing it and feeling gross.

Yeah, and I think I've now got a space.

I think in my newsletter, I feel safe, not safe.

I feel genuine and authentic.

I feel like in the best possible way, this is a place in which I can communicate in a way that really suits me and seems to engage my readers.

And all I have to do is add on to that, a layer of enthusiasm about my books that is maybe, yes, maybe I only believe it one day out of 10.

I just need to try and capture that one day out of 10 feeling.

That's an exaggeration.

I don't get it one day out of 10.

But sometimes I must be an enthusiast about my books.

I just don't let myself, eat a big bar of chocolate.

I don't let myself, because I think it is like a self doubt thing.

Because if I say that I really believe my books and then they fail, that's the worst thing imaginable.

Whereas if I say like, they're okay and then they don't do that well, well, you know they're okay.

No, do you know what?

No, no, you have learned this weekend, that the worst thing imaginable is a lorry.

Yeah, the lorry is driven into your house.

So this marketing thing, being authentic is that's not the worst thing imaginable.

Not selling a book, the worst thing imaginable is the lorry.

And you dealt with that and everything was okay.

And that's fine.

Yeah, so I've done so much.

So today, I'm so sorry, everybody.

But I have done so much work this year, that I have let myself not, not fully engaged with the fact that I am still stuck on this last portion.

This like self belief portion, because I've got rid of all the blocks that will not let me act.

Right?

I really had a lot of issues at the end of the year that were really holding back and not let me like push myself as far as I were to go.

And now I've got rid of a lot of those, but I'm still stuck in the place where I, I do have like negative feelings about my, like, you know, self-worth and the worth of my work in a way that I don't even want to really talk about.

Right?

Like I'm not going to talk about it right now, but I think it is worth talking about.

And if I look at my successful version of myself in five years time, and that person is looking back, the difference between me and her is like, is just self-belief.

Like that's it.

And she's writing the same books I'm writing, she's putting the same effort in.

She just believed in her work more.

And so I just need to be that person.

And for me, I need to find a way to do it authentically, because I can't, I can fake it till I make it, but I have to at least have like a measure of self-belief that is true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if you would ever consider doing like mantra work.

I know this is like really woo-woo stuff, but it apparently works.

It's having mantras that you repeat every day to hype yourself up.

I don't know if that would be something that you would consider doing.

I think that that would be quite a fun challenge.

I hate the idea so much that I think it's probably as useful.

Like it feels like it's getting more difficult as comfort feeling the idea.

So the same feeling of like talking positively about my own work.

Yeah, I think I...

What I...

You know, when you're talking earlier about like, you've got all these these messages on your wall.

I was thinking like, you know, I really wanted to sit down together and like, make some messaging together and like reflect on each other's work in a way that's hard to reflect on your own.

I want to be really, really positive about it and find more of those slogans like, you know, the books that bring you out of a reading slump.

And maybe talk about things that like you...

There's things I know about my work that I don't...

I can't look at because they're too like attached to myself worth.

And they're positive things, right?

They're things people said about my work, but I can't...

I cannot even look at it.

Like I can't even conceive of looking at it because it feels horrible.

Whereas if we sat down together and talked through it, I would feel able to confront that and like, bring it out of the shadows and be able to be enthusiastic.

I think I am this close to be enthusiastic.

And that is the last puzzle piece.

But it's nearly the last puzzle piece that I need.

It's a big puzzle piece that I need to find.

Yeah, I feel like we've done the work today.

We've done the sitting in the reclining chair looking at the ceiling work.

I feel like I've talked a lot as well, though.

Are there things that you want to talk about in terms of...

I mean, the topic of today is not what we talked about realistically.

We're supposed to be talking about make authentic sales messages.

Actually, we have talked about it, right?

About like how to make them authentic when it feels uncomfortable.

So, yeah.

Yeah, because I...

What's your next step?

My next step is, I think, trying to figure out my newsletter and what positioning that I'm taking in that, because I do feel like it's such an untapped source for me.

I've really...

I've not done like a great job of building it this year, but I've done much better than I have any previous year.

So, I have built my newsletter for a bit this year.

I really want to have a better strategy for next year to keep building it and then also to be using that as a really good funnel for sales, but also just having contact with readers.

So, I definitely think that's something that I need to start thinking about.

I hadn't really, until we were talking about it today, I hadn't really put those pieces together that that was something, that's what the blocker was on that, was just me not understanding what I'm trying to say to people.

So, that's fun, like a fun realisation.

With social media and stuff, I feel like I have, I feel like I've figured out my social media.

I think that at some point, it'll just grow naturally, and that will only happen with like, releasing of books.

I'm not dependent on, like getting a viral video or anything like that.

I think a lot of people are trying to hit viral videos as a way to progress.

That doesn't feel authentic to me to be trying to do things that go viral.

So I like what I'm doing.

It feels good.

And I'm just going to kind of continue with that.

And yeah, just work on my email.

I think that's my, my just my big next step.

I'm glad to have figured that out.

Yeah, it is.

It definitely feels like something that I like, I feel like I could have an email from you a day and be really happy with it.

Like I think you have it's a, it's a skill that you're not exploiting, a way that you communicate people that you're not doing enough with, that you could be doing more with.

And like you're already paying for the service, whatever level you pay at, you're already paying for that.

There's no extra cost to it.

There's just your time.

And for me, going from monthly to weekly, it hasn't taken really much more time, a little bit more organization and a little bit more time, but not proportionally.

And I feel like the outcome is significantly better.

What's interesting actually, I'm going to wrap up very shortly.

I have a button at the bottom of my newsletter where you can unsubscribe, but I also have a button where you can go from the weekly to the monthly only option.

Every week, someone picks monthly only.

If it were me, I would just unsubscribe before I annoyed at somebody.

I'd be like, never mind, I'll ignore you.

Or I wouldn't read the newsletter anymore.

There's no situation where I would click go to monthly only.

And that is so positive.

I see people who are saying, you know, this is a bit too frequent for me.

I don't want to hear everything, but I absolutely don't want to miss out on your like newsletter.

I love it.

And it's that's such a boost.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely lovely.

So yes, I think we've covered all our therapy things today for what I thought was going to be a pretty uninspiring topic, but that feels really great.

And I'm really glad we talked about this.

And it's often like the tiny topics that turn out to be really deep and big.

So great work.

Yes.

Good work.

Do you have anything else to add on this topic?

No, I am topic out.

Excellent.

Well, we're on to next week's topic then.

We are continuing this series that we're calling Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is.

The next episode is about reading the results.

Do you have any initial thoughts on that?

I was going to say, I can't wait, but that's a lie.

I am looking forward to the forced fullness of having to look at the stats on my ads, because I've got an ad that's probably about to run out.

It was running for a month.

So, in the past, I have kind of looked at the results of ads and not really done much with what I have gleaned from it.

And this is like a good opportunity for me to actually look at the results and then decide on the next thing to do.

And I am kind of looking forward to it, because I like trying to figure out the secrets of the stats.

So, yeah, I'm going to be optimistic.

How about you?

I'm yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to doing it with somebody else because I'm very much a try it and then throw my hands up in the air be like, well, that didn't work.

I'll just stop and then hide under a rock for a while.

So I am.

I'm looking forward to having done next week's episode.

That is where I might not look forward to the process of doing the operation or doing the episode necessarily, but having done it will be so good.

So fantastic.

Yeah, I think this series is good and I've got ads running right now.

I've got Amazon and Facebook, so plenty to talk about.

I've run some book clubs as well recently.

I will look forward to discussing those.

So please do join us again next week for that topic, which I wish it would be more on topic than today's was, but today's was very useful, I think.

Please do also like and subscribe, tell your friends about the podcast.

It is how we grow best.

And we will speak to you again next week.

Goodbye.

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