S01E43:When We Put Our Money Where Our Mouths Are

In this week’s episode, Samantha and Matilda talk about trusting the process, specifically when it comes to ads!

Next week, Sam and Matilda will try to figure out the best way to be authentic to themselves in their messaging.

Where to find Sam and Matilda:

SAM IG: @sammowrimo

Website: www.samantha-cummings.com

Book to start with: Curse of the Wild (Moons & Magic Book 1) https://amzn.eu/d/3QHym3m

Most recent book: Heart of the Wolf (Moons & Magic Book 2) https://amzn.eu/d/4HecH3a

MATILDA IG: @matildaswiftauthor

Website: MatildaSwift.com

Book to start with: https://books2read.com/TheSlayoftheLand (book #1 of The Heathervale Mysteries)

Most recent book: https://books2read.com/ButterLatethanNever (book #3 of The Slippery Spoon Mysteries)

Mentioned on the show:

Nothing this week - but check out previous episodes for helpful links. 

Transcript:

Welcome to your next step of the Self Publishing Mountain.

I'm Matilda Swift, author of Quintessentially British Cozy Mysteries.

And I'm Samantha Cummings, author of Young Adult Books about Magic, Myths and Monsters.

I've written the books, changed their covers, tweaked their blurbs, tried tools from a dozen ad courses, and I'm still not seeing success.

Now, we're working together to plot and plan our way from barely making ends meet to pulling in a living wage.

Join us on our journey where we'll be mastering the pen to snag that paycheck.

Hello and welcome to Pen to Paycheck Authors podcast.

I'm Samantha Cummings, here with my co-host Matilda Swift, and we're here to write our way to financial success.

We're two indie authors with over a dozen books between us and still a long way to go towards the quit the day job dream.

If that sounds familiar, listen along for our mastery through missteps journey.

Each week we cover a topic to help along the way and this week's topic is trusting the process.

But before that, what are your friends and whinges of the week?

I feel like I've got so many, but I'm going to try and narrow it down.

Some of them are related to what we're going to talk about later.

I've been having some forays into the ads world, which brought up a lot of emotions, and it's been useful to monitor those and handle them in a deliberate way.

So ups and downs, more of a coaster of life that way.

So I went that a bit.

But the clocks have gone back in the UK, which is a very specific whinge to me.

I mean, that's a general whinge in that it's not great, it gets dark very early.

Specific to me, my day job is remote in Hong Kong, and they do not change the clocks there.

So in winter, the darkest point of the year, I have to start work an hour earlier.

So tomorrow morning, I have to wake up at 5am, when it will be pitch black and cold.

And all the bad things.

It's a really big whinge there.

But if it's worth it, I know.

It's so terrible.

But it will be worth it.

I'm getting out to work on my writing.

I've got one more week or a few more days anyway, before I'm starting on the next edit.

So I'm going to spend this week...

A couple of different things, actually.

I've got some short stories I've already drafted that I want to edit, but those are for a different project that I'm sort of still mulling over.

And I want to talk about when I've got them a bit further along.

And then I want to write bonus stories for my new book series.

So that's what I'm doing a bit this week.

So it'll be nice waking up early to kind of do something different that's not a big, long project.

So we're looking forward to that.

But I will be feeling differently at five in the morning tomorrow.

And then when it's, it's a long story.

I went to a silent disco this weekend.

It was Halloween and it was a night that was in a beautiful, old historic building used to be this baths like a traditional bath house.

And it's phenomenal.

They got a huge amount of funding to renovate it.

And I'm guessing Sam's been there because it's also near her.

It went to Victoria Baths and they have a night and they brought out three DJs from clubs in Manchester where we've got that have died.

So they were resurrecting them for Halloween.

And in the silent disco, you had three different channels and you could see from your headphones, which channel you were listening to because they were different colors.

And all night, I felt like I was having an epiphany about like writing to market, or like engaging readers even.

So the three channels are quite different.

So they were they were quite different clubs in Manchester.

One was the one that I went to, which kind of a rocky club.

And it but they had several different rooms there.

So one of the rooms is metal, one was kind of indie music, and one was sort of maybe pop pop.

So so all night, they were kind of mixing those musics together.

One club was like dance music.

And one club was absolutely anything.

It had no rules.

They just seemed to play whatever.

And they'd have a little sequence of maybe like some fun Boppy 50 stuff.

But then they'd play a song like a novelty song.

So if a song didn't grip you in the first few seconds, you'd switch just to see what's on the other channels, just to see.

And then you might find something really good in the other channel.

And then you might see that everyone around you is bright red, and they look like they're having the best time ever.

So their headphones are bright red, you're on a different color.

So you switch to red to see what it is, and you're like, oh my goodness, this song, fantastic.

And then maybe your friend next to you would elbow you, and you'd be like, oh, blue, blue, listen to blue, because it's a song that we loved when we were younger.

And they'd hop over to blue.

And it was so like such a real world visual example of self-publishing.

And like, how, how effective your first few pages have to be, and how you have to keep people in a series by, like, kind of maintaining the style and the quality and what people expect.

Because we had a whole run of like, early 2000s, like shout singing pop punk stuff for a while, but everybody was listening to the whole club was listening to, or everyone was the same color.

And then they played a song that was like, it was okay, but it wasn't, and everyone loves it song.

And a few people drifted away.

And then one of the DJs clearly saw this and put on something fantastic on a different channel, and everyone was like, over there, done.

And it was such a good visualization of like, you've got to get people hooked in the first few pages.

You've got to keep them reading between, between books and get them seamlessly between them, maintaining your style and your quality.

Oh, absolute.

Win of the week.

It was so good to see that and to feel like, you know, epiphany while also dancing all night.

So it's extra good.

How about you?

Yeah, that sounds amazing.

I wish my week was like that.

I have got, I've got a few, I would love to do that.

I've got a few wins, mostly winges.

I'll start with my wins.

So I finally finished the beat sheet for the book that I'm going to start writing on Friday.

And that felt great because I feel like, I was kind of putting it off.

I'd done a little bit of work on it, but felt like as much as I know what the story is that I'm writing, I haven't been feeling like the exciting vibes of like jumping into a new story because I've been working on the same things for quite a while.

So I was kind of a bit hesitant.

Is this your super exciting world's best X meets Y story?

No, this is, I mean, to me, this is also a super exciting Y meets X, but it's not the one that we both are very excited about.

This is a different one that I am very excited about.

And yeah, I just wasn't really letting myself get excited about it.

And I think it's probably because like Nana was like not happening this year.

So there's a bit of a down feeling to that.

But yeah, I've kind of finally slipped into like that mode of knowing that I'm going to write this story and knowing what it is.

So I am riding a bit of that high this week, but I am on like a major downer at the same time because I have just been cursed.

Someone's cursed me.

I don't know who and I don't know how to get rid of it.

But I have been just like been hit with so many rubbish life stuff recently, like my car breaking down.

And then I tried to get it fixed and I took it to get fixed.

And when I got there, they were like, oh no, sorry, we've had to cancel.

So take your car away.

And it's just been, yeah, it's like stuff, just stuff like that way.

It's like, oh, everything's getting better.

Oh, no, it's not.

So I had an issue with just like technology is just being really bad for me at the moment.

But I had an issue with Amazon and getting the proof of my book cover for the book that I just released.

I was supposed to get a proof sent to me.

My original proof was wrong.

So I had to go away and get some tweaks on it so that they could print it correctly, weird.

And so I got them to ship it and it never showed up.

And so I had to look and see what had happened and they had cancelled it.

They were just like, no, we're not doing that.

So I was like, oh, great, because they didn't tell me.

I had to look it up and see and it had the status cancelled.

Like, don't know why.

So I had to reorder that.

It's going to arrive tomorrow apparently, but I don't hold out that much hope.

I don't know what's going on.

There's a disappointment.

Yeah, I need to like light a candle or burn some sort of herbs or just surround myself with Rosemary or something.

I need to break this curse.

It's very strange.

Circle of salt around you.

Yeah, I need the circle of salt.

Yeah, I just need something to stop what's going on.

So yeah, I just feel a little bit like, I feel like it's been a real roller coaster this week.

And funnily enough, I am going to Alton Towers at the weekend.

So maybe this is the universe's way of being like, but life is a roller coaster, much like Ronan Keating told you.

Yeah, you just got to ride it.

So I'm trying to take it in good stead.

Like I'm trying to look at this as lessons that I'm supposed to learn, like that life's topsy-turvy and you just got to go with it.

Yeah, but sometimes you should have another little lesson.

Sometimes you want stuff to go right.

I do, but I feel like at some point it's got to go right.

So I'm holding out.

Yeah.

It's going to be fine.

Once in November, even though it's not super exciting that there's no big like nano push, you're doing a group, right?

You're doing a writing group.

Yes, so I am excited for that.

And just, yeah.

And my sister's coming back from Australia.

I've not seen her in a few years.

So that will be good.

She's bringing her baby.

I've never met.

Life is about to get better.

So you saw her this year, right?

No, I've not seen her since.

No, I've not seen her since she got married.

And that was not last Christmas, the Christmas before, like the winter before.

So yeah, I've not seen her.

For some reason, I think it was, you just went to their wedding.

Oh God, no, it was a while ago.

I know, I know, it's, time is weird.

Can't keep up though.

It's bizarre, okay.

So yeah, you're not seeing her for a couple of years, you're having a little early Christmas.

We are having an early Christmas.

Hopefully the curse will be over by then.

The curse is gonna be over by hook or by crook.

A little bugged.

Yeah, okay.

Well, I mean, that's maybe up for this week's topic.

I'm not sure.

This week's topic is a slightly odd one.

So maybe before we get into it, I think so we deliberately picked a kind of, we always pick a series of four that are around an area that we're currently already working in, and we kind of want to focus our work and attention.

So we named this series that we're about to start, Trusting the Process, which is, oh no, we named the series, Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is, which is where we wanted to say, we're coming up to the end of our year of podcasting, our year of masterminding, and we feel like we've learned a lot, but we are kind of at a stage where we should be really actively making some moves to level up on a financial scales, on a financial side of things.

So that is Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is.

Today's episode is called Trusting the Process, which is a very vague topic.

In my notes on this, because you know I take such diligent notes when we plan these things, I wrote Trusting the Process brackets, Facebook ads and Bookbub ads.

What, just for those who maybe don't know, but definitely not me, what do we mean by this?

Right.

Okay, so I have like two, I've been holding two meanings in my mind.

So one of them is kind of like what I was just saying, which is like just taking the hits and knowing that like doing this whole self-publishing thing is a bit of a rollercoaster.

So don't do knee-jerk reactions and don't panic when bumps occur.

So that was kind of like the mentality part for me was, and I think that the universe is trying to teach me that.

So kudos, universe.

And then there's also the whole thing about Facebook ads or ads in general, which was all about, because we've been talking about ads for the last year, all about setting up ads and putting the money into them and letting them run without too much interference.

So I have been guilty of this.

I know how long it takes for specifically for me, I just do Facebook ads.

I know how long it takes for Facebook ads to start learning.

But I don't ever really set up Facebook ads for long durations, because I kind of feel like I'm kind of dipping out, because out of fear or whatever, I don't know, whatever block I've got, feeling like I'm wasting money, which is stupid because it's really like all experimental at this phase.

So I should just be excited to be experimenting.

So it's just about things like don't be scared when things don't go your way.

Let things happen and then react accordingly at the end.

That's how I've come to understand it, if that sounds like what you maybe are thinking.

I think it's connected to what I've been thinking about this week in that the big scale is like trying not to react emotionally to whatever's happening, like, just have faith that so for example, if you're trying ads, and you feel like, oh, what I'm doing is throwing money away, I should turn it off.

Like that is always my knee jerk reaction, just be like, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing, or I'm not spending enough time working on this.

I need maybe I should have more books, maybe I should wait for a better series, or I like I can always should my way out of the thing.

And, and I think trust in the process for me is more about like, not expecting something to go right straight away, and being able to spend time and invest that time in figuring something out.

So in fact, for me, maybe the opposite is true with Facebook ads, or ads in general, rather than like trying to say, I'm going to set it and let it run for a while.

Because I tend to set it and let it run for a while, and then be like, well, I guess that's over.

And I walk away and do it again.

I want to make sure I'm maybe doing more.

And it's not that I want to do that, it's that I don't feel confident enough to...

I feel like if something isn't going well quickly, it's going wrong, which is not true, but that's just the feeling I have.

So we were talking before this started about, you know, we've talked to each other a few times, like I feel like I don't have good resilience for things that don't go right straight away, because I found school academics quite easy, which meant that anything that I didn't find easy, I'd just stop, because I'd be like, well, I'll drop that subject, because it's not coming super easy to me.

And there's something else I can do that I do find super easy, so why stress myself out?

And also things with academics, there's, it feels much more straightforward, and like all we have to do is follow the instructions and then you get the outcome.

So I think I'm just very good at that, and therefore things like ads, which are more of a magic potion spell type situation, which it feels like it shouldn't be, but that does seem like what needs to happen.

Because otherwise, how would there be 17,000 different gurus all have the exact right way, but none of those ways works for me?

Um, yeah, and I find that space very uncomfortable.

And so for me, trust in the process is more of saying, you just have to be in an uncomfortable space for a while and find the little corner of it that you can tolerate.

Which is unusual for me, and a place I don't enjoy being, but that is the process I'm trusting, is that that is part of the business.

Yes.

No, I agree.

Um, it's funny, I was talking about this with some colleagues today.

One of my colleagues said that he was learning guitar when he was younger, trying to learn guitar when he was younger, but he gave up.

And I think he's very similar to you in that he's always been very academically good.

I would also have given up learning guitar.

Yeah, because he couldn't do bar chords.

So he was like, well, I can't do bar chords, so I'll stop.

And he carried on learning an instrument that he found a lot easier.

And it made me laugh because, I mean, you can probably, for people who have seen videos of this and stuff, or seen clips on Instagram, say, I've got guitars behind me, like an array of guitars, and I have the opposite.

So I just think if I can do something, medium well, then that's fine.

I'll buy things and I'm happy.

Like I don't need to be a master of something to enjoy doing it and to spend time doing it.

So I love that we have that alternate, like you're very much on that end of the spectrum and I'm just like over here, like, oh, I can kind of do this.

Okay, this is why I pick up loads of hobbies.

I can do this to kind of a general basic level.

Great, I'll do it.

And I do think that's like a positive for me when it comes to Facebook ads is that I'm very happy to throw ads out into the ether.

My blockage is always the spend.

Like I always feel like it's not the right time for me to be doing ads because I don't have a complete series.

And whenever I see things on Facebook, in the groups and things, people say, oh, there's no point doing ads until you've got a complete series or until you've got 20 books and there were all these rules and regulations that people kind of set that work for them.

But that doesn't work for me because I've got books out and I need to tell people about them.

And so I have this part of me that's like, well, it doesn't matter, just do it and have fun.

And I like that part.

And then I have that bit that's like, oh, maybe they're right, maybe I'm wasting money.

But then like, I've put this money into this account, into my business account to be spent.

So it's not a waste because in my mind, I've already spent it, like, it's not in my current account, it's in my business account, so it's there to go.

It's a very-

I do also think the issue with waiting is that, because I keep thinking, should I wait until I have this next series out that is, I'm hoping more to market?

So like, it's more of an uphill battle.

You know, my series that I am advertising is older, it's less to market.

It's my first series, so it's not as well written.

You know, I feel like, oh, maybe I shouldn't advertise that.

But if I wait until my new series is ready, then on that series, I have to learn how to do ads.

And so it's then, yes, it feels too late.

And you just like going around and around and around in circles of where there's no, there is no best time to do it.

And there's no perfect time at which you both already know how to do ads and have the perfect series to advertise, because you can't have both at once.

So I think it is worth advertising, at least, you know, even if you're making a loss, like you're, you're doing that rather than spending a lot of money on an ads course, you're learning by doing.

And if that works for you, that works for you.

Yeah, I, yeah, and I think part of as well, having, having done this process with you for a year, it definitely feels like the big thing that I am coming to at the end of this year is being able to, and this sounds really basic, but I haven't been able to use in terms of self publishing, is being able to like separate my emotions from my actions.

I think because there's so much to self publishing, that I have really been able to just lean into the places where I find I am strong and confident, and then just sort of gloss over the bits that I'm not, because there is so much to do, like you could be busy as I have been, with the bits that you feel more confident with, and that takes up all your time, but that's slowing your progress down.

And I think, having spent this best part of a year with you on this process, it is really useful to see someone who responds really differently to me, and also just to have someone to talk through the sticky parts, and to really be able to cement the fact that just because something doesn't feel good doesn't mean you should not do it.

And again, that sounds so basic.

I know, I know it does.

And it's always the cliches that hit you in the face because you don't want to keep saying them.

Yeah, I don't want to admit that life happens when you least expect it.

I don't want to admit that.

I guess it's so embarrassing to say it, and you have to be in it to win it.

You know, all of these awful things like, yes, you are correct.

Life's a roller coaster.

You just got to ride it.

Yeah, it's so like to be at this point and to be saying these things as though they're epiphanies.

But they are because you have to, you really have to get to those points.

People can't tell you these things.

You really have to live it in order to feel it, like to internalize it.

And I do feel like that that's, I am at that stage where I'm just really having to just have these experiences and and then come to these awful cliché realizations.

So, yeah, I think it's not about that.

I think you're right, though.

It is about you can't really, you're trying to internalize it.

So there hasn't been a situation where I've been forced to really internalize that if you avoid things that feel bad, you're limiting your progress.

Because I have, like we said, like I've been in a lot of academic environments where that obviously isn't true.

For me, who finds academic things come quite naturally, like musical instruments, absolutely not.

I, like your friend, am trying to learn guitar, but my guitar teacher also taught singing lessons.

And I happen, just by the virtue of the way my vocal cords are arranged, to have a beautiful singing voice.

So, I lasted maybe a couple months in guitar lessons, and then I secretly switched taking singing lessons, and I didn't tell my parents.

Singing lessons, which I already sing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just fun, though.

And I enjoyed it a lot more.

Yeah.

Because you already knew how to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've been singing, like, my whole life.

I've been in choirs always, but it was really enjoyable, and it was nice to feel good.

It's not nice to feel bad, which again, should be like a day one lesson for babies.

It's not nice to feel bad.

I know this.

Yeah, but yeah, growth comes from the awkward phases that you go through.

I think also, I think it's tricky.

I'm so used to trusting my intuition.

Like I'm a person who really does have faith in my own instincts and my intuition.

And so for me, I'm very used to feeling confident.

If something feels bad, it's not the right thing.

And I think in a business, there will be things that it feels counterintuitive to put effort into, and that you just have to keep going.

And it's hard not to trust your instincts, hard to go against your instincts actively.

So that is what I'm having to do at the moment.

And I think this series I'm putting you in my mouth is, is useful because I'm being forced to not let myself off the hook and not say, oh, I tried ads for five minutes and they didn't work for me.

So I guess I would do ads.

What I have been noticing, actually, this is like a really good highlight of what I've been doing, like a good silver lining is, I've been running an ad for about two weeks now and it's getting clicks.

I think I've had maybe a little bit of conversion from it.

I have been having page reads and I've had some book sales recently, which has been very nice.

But the biggest thing that I have noticed is that because I'm advertising, Instagram is serving me a load of ads for other authors.

Like crazy, like I'm getting like on stories on Instagram, I'm getting ads in a row of other authors and what they're advertising.

And I have been-

I've had this, and I've had pages like, is nobody advertising on Facebook and Instagram?

Because I didn't do anything.

And then the second you start interacting or doing anything that tells Facebook you're interested, it's like, oh, everyone's doing it.

Good to see all these.

Yes.

But the fun thing is, I kind of run, always run the same kind of ads.

I always make the same kind of graphics.

I always do the same kind of copy.

And if I hadn't started this ad set that I'm doing right now, and I hadn't started getting these other ads served to me, I wouldn't have seen the way other authors are doing ads.

And they're doing ads in a great way.

I've been taking screenshots and saved them into a folder.

Because I'm just finding people are using Instagram ads and the ads and stories in such a fun way that I would never have thought of.

So I do feel like...

Can I have access to this folder, please?

Because I...

Yes, I'll send you screenshots.

I've never really seen these sorts of ads before.

Like somebody who I follow, there's not even any copy on it.

It's just an intriguing image.

She writes like a vampire series, and it's just a picture of a vampire.

And it's like, and that's it.

No copy, it's just a Learn More button.

And I'm like, as somebody who loves vampire stuff, I'm like, what is this advert that I keep getting?

So I keep clicking Learn More.

It's like, oh, I keep getting caught up by this advert.

It's like, what is this that she's advertising?

And it just goes through to a series page.

I'm like, that is some smart advertising.

Because I just love things like that.

And yeah, I've had just seen loads of different things, like different kinds of copy and images, and even like landing pages and things that I would never have thought to do.

All because I started this ad.

So I feel like I am learning from this process in a way that I didn't expect to learn.

And I like that.

It's just, it's the artistic key parts that I'm enjoying, not the, I'm gonna obviously have to look at all the stats and stuff and figure things out at some point.

But right now I'm just enjoying the visual side of seeing all of the stuff that I could be doing and saving it for like future use, which is, I think that's like an exciting part of doing ads is having new ideas about different ways that you could reach people that you wouldn't have thought of because you're limited to your own ideas.

Yeah, I think for me, I have got really stuck in thinking like, oh, I have to master the basics.

And to an extent, right, you do have to master the basics, like you have to understand how ads work.

But I have been stuck in getting enthusiastic about ads because I'm like, I need to at least make ads pay off before I start trying crazy things because like if I can't even make a basic image and text work, obviously can't make wild things work.

But you're right, like that part does get really exciting.

And I have been interacting with ads more on Facebook, specifically to get served more ads, which does not feel fantastic in terms of like, I'm aware it's cost people money to serve these ads to me.

But I would hope people are, you know, it's tiny cost and I appreciate seeing them.

And you can see them in the ads library, obviously, but it's one thing to look up someone's ads library images.

It's another thing to see, like, how does it feel when you're served it in your feed?

And what makes me stop?

Yeah.

And I have screenshotted some some recently, but that is phenomenal.

Absolutely made me stop.

And I wanted to, I was like, Oh, I should buy that book.

I was like, No, I, I probably already own that book.

Or I might as well buy that book.

I've got a thousand books on my Kindle.

I have had to stop myself.

Yeah, I've had to stop myself from buying a lot of books from the ads that have been served.

Like these people are doing good things.

I can't buy more books right now, but I'm very tempted.

Good job.

But I will.

So you've been doing your Facebook app for a couple of weeks.

You're thinking about ways to experiment.

You're looking at your metrics, but not to do anything right now.

Is that all you're doing in terms of trusting the process, or are you doing any other sorts of ads or similar things?

No, that's basically it.

Because I've been just focused on Facebook ads and trying to just let things run.

I have been tweaking here and there, but not trying to make too big changes.

Like when Facebook offers you suggestions, I've just been accepting a lot of those.

But no, I've just been doing the Facebook ads.

I think because I've been focusing on just doing ads, I have dropped off Instagram just like posting stuff because I haven't been able to mentally compute doing ads and also trying to do Instagram posts.

I'm a little bit of an impasse with that, but I'm okay with that.

I am trusting the process and that sometimes taking a break is okay.

I'm interacting with people.

I'm leaving comments and stuff, but I haven't really been posting much because I feel like my brain is going to explode and just dribble out of my ears.

That's what you can do.

Yeah.

So I have been trying to do very small, deliberate starts into advertising in different places to get me over that Humpa feeling like I am paralyzed by indecision and by lack of confidence.

So I have done little bits of advertising on Amazon, Facebook, and Bookbub in the last few weeks, not all at once.

So Bookbub was useful.

So I had my UK-only Bookbub for Nightline Sets book.

That was weirdly the last book in the series, but it was very seasonal.

I'm expecting to have a slow payoff.

I didn't do anything else to promote it in the lead-up.

I thought about it and it just didn't seem worth it for that particular book.

Had it been maybe first in series UK-only, I probably would have thought about something else to do with it, maybe advertising in advance or discounting other books in the series, things like that.

But I just wanted to see how it would do.

It was cheap enough that I wanted to get a sense of the experiment and see the outcome.

It's still ranking fairly well in UK, so that was useful to see.

It's still, I think, getting borrows.

I'm hoping to see a long term of page reads, and I just want to see how that does.

So that was really positive and just really nice to kind of have that bookbub experience and feel like I'm gaining knowledge in an area that I previously had zero knowledge.

So I had that bookbub, but also what I wanted to do was start doing some bookbub ads.

Because it's a very specific learnable platform, there's no witchcraft or mystery around it.

All you can really affect is your target audience, so like your comp authors, and then the kind of graphic that you choose to put up with it.

And you can do various experiments of like different, you know, pairs of those basically.

So you might say, I'm going to do all my comp authors with one graphic and a free book, see the numbers of that, and then get rid of the comp authors that don't make the cut.

Then do another graphic and see if I can improve on that, and then try a different sort of deal.

So I've done that in the past couple of weeks.

That's been really useful to do.

I think I obviously don't feel like I've cracked it.

Like, oh, I'm not going to use Bookbub to print money, but I don't think anybody does.

I think it is just a small lever to move the needle.

It was really, really helpful to see that different comp authors had got wildly different results.

So the way that Bookbub adds work is when people, or my understanding of it is, when people open the Bookbub Daily Deals email, they already have in the back end of Bookbub, the authors that they follow and that they have interacted with in some way.

So either they've bought a book from them, or they have either followed them, or clicked through links in various places of Bookbub, so it tracks people who have interacted with the author, as well as just follows.

So when you open an email from Bookbub, it knows you're tagged with ex-author.

And so it will say, oh, Matilda Swift wants to serve an ad to followers of ex-author, will show that ad to that person.

And then they fix that ad in their Bookbub email on the bottom of it.

And it's like dynamic.

It serves different ads to different people when they open it.

So different authors who I would have thought were, I would not have predicted the order they came in, and I would not have predicted the wide disparity of click-through rates.

Like really, really enormous.

So on a free book, I think I got up to like 2 percent, which is what you're looking for in a Bookbub ad.

But all the way down to like 0.08 percent or something ludicrous.

For like a book that I would have thought, or an author I would have thought was quite similar to me.

And I got great click-through rates for someone that I thought like, I'm not really sure.

I don't know how some of them are to me.

In like, in a reader's eye, I think somewhat and they're in my also boards.

And I would not have put it there with that similar, but that was like strongly ahead.

So just really great.

It costs very little money to do those experiments.

And the David Gogran Bookbub book is like such a good template for how to do it.

Just like walk you through all the steps.

Do X, do Y, do Z, judge the results.

So that was really nice.

And I feel like I have done a few rounds of trials with that.

I, he really says like the only things to, that are worth advertising on there are like free books, 99 cent books and new books.

So I think I will use it as a tool when I do my launch of my new series because I will have book one out and I can put in the ad like books two and three coming.

I'll have the dates for those.

So I think that will be an appealing advert.

So that was really useful to do and very affordable and incredibly clear what you're doing and what you get out of it.

Yeah.

Obviously, I don't think I've yet found a way to say it's making money, but I don't know that I've necessarily done long enough tests to really judge that as well because I think a lot of it is about long tail effects, like you're moving your rank up, you're increasing visibility, you get better organic reach, you get read through.

So I think it's really, it's one of those ones where it's really hard to tell from small tests what your long-term impacts might be.

So that is my next round of work on it, but it's maybe not something I'm going to do anytime soon, because I want to look at a strategic plan for promos.

So but that was great to do.

And I think something very doable if you've got books that you can put onto promotions.

So a few books, a series where you might have metrics you can get from it.

So things like read through and looking at rank changes over long term.

So fantastic.

So I did that.

The exact opposite in terms of positivity for the book, for the Amazon ad I've been running, which is that auto ad I mentioned last week.

It's an auto ad.

I've got a little bit of money on it every day, but Amazon's not really spending it.

But I'm not really sure it's Amazon's fault.

It's given me loads of impressions and it's a book that Amazon knows who to serve it to and how.

And the only clicks I'm getting are from incredibly vague search terms like mysteries, mystery books.

So I think it is just worth turning off.

I don't think it's worthwhile.

I think I would actually now I see, I don't know, now I feel more confident to do some keyword research and to make my own ad and go back through.

I'm going to go through the Ricardo Fayette's Amazon book, which is a big book and needs a lot of work through.

So I'll do that.

But I think it's worth, I think it's worth having a go on it.

Just because I know the box set.

It was sticky when I had a book club on it.

It was sticky.

Amazon did a good job of organic promotion.

It got good KU reads when it was up ranked higher.

So I think it's worthwhile investing time to figure that out.

So that's not gone well, but I feel like I'm trusting the process.

I'm going to do next steps.

And then I have just today started a Facebook ad.

I'm going to go UK only.

For those who are listening out of time when we're launching this, we are still a couple of weeks away from the 2024 US election, which peopled the future.

I don't know how that went for you.

So hopefully you're dealing with the repercussion as well.

But it's not great for Facebook advertising in the US.

So I'm going UK only.

Just test it out and see how it goes, which I'm feeling medium about.

But we will see.

Actually, I feel okay about it.

I think the point at which I would feel not great about it is when I do not have instant success.

So right now, I feel optimistic.

Tomorrow, let's see.

Yeah.

I will say that the thing about Facebook that I really like is that they, they will serve the ad, like you'll get clicks.

It's just like the conversion, like whether it shows to the right people and the conversion is what takes the longest time for them to figure out the right people to show up to.

But what I also love about Facebook ads is the different types of ads that you can run for the same campaign.

So that you can put different images for stories, different images, or copy for Instagram than you got for Facebook.

I love all those bits of being able to tinker around.

That feels more like you're doing something useful, which is why I like Facebook ads because I feel like there are so many leavers to pull.

And yeah, I feel like I'm involved in the process, but I have yet to make money from it, but I like that feeling of maybe having the tools for success.

Okay.

It's within your power.

You just haven't quite grasped it yet.

Yes.

I'm not using it to the best of its ability, but there is a best to be figured out.

Okay.

So how are you feeling generally about trusting the process?

I am feeling good about it.

Like we've been saying for a while, it's so difficult to unlearn gut instinct because your instinct in life doesn't work for instinct in business.

It's a completely different muscle that you've got to learn how to use and how to develop.

So I feel okay.

Like I do feel like I'm getting a bit sturdier and less emotional about the things that don't go wrong, don't go right, the things that go, I think go wrong, but they've not gone wrong.

Yeah, I feel like I am a lot more detached emotionally, and that feels good.

I feel like I'm being an adult and not like a surly teenager, even though I am almost 40 and I haven't been a surly teenager for many years.

But yes, it's like I feel the distinction really coming along and I have done for the last few months.

So I'm feeling good about trusting the process.

How about you?

Right now in this conversation, I feel fine about it.

And I think I feel more stable and strengthened against the fact that I know I won't feel good about it this week.

I think I will have a lot of emotional upheaval around this in a way that I don't really around a lot of things.

I find it really frustrating.

But I think, and so I have really pushed away from that and just be like, well, I don't want to feel emotional upheaval around this area, so I'll just not do it.

But I'm just going to feel it.

And I'm just going to feel my feelings and do it anyway.

Again, just a real original thought there.

Just gonna live with that fear.

Yeah, and that is positive to know.

And it's also, I've been really trying hard recently to like deliberately ask more help in both real life and like writing life things.

So I'm trying to strengthen that muscle that is very, very weak right now.

And that can only do me good.

So positive, positive, but feels uncomfortable.

It's like medicine.

That's where I'm at now.

I'm feeling like I'm taking my medicine.

Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't taste good, but it's good for you.

Oh, just, just love life, just loving it.

Okay, so for next week's topic, we are continuing with our series of putting your money where your mouth is.

The next episode is about making authentic sales messages.

Do you have any initial thoughts on this?

Freeing my notes.

You know what I don't actually, it's interesting when I write up the rundown before we start.

And when I wrote that one, I was thinking, why do you put that one in?

Because it doesn't feel as active as the other ones that come up in the series.

So I think I'll find it interesting this week to really, to really think about how I can enact it.

Because we wrote down two things that for me are very opposite.

So, socials and email.

So I'm trying to read my own bad writing there.

And email.

I read my newsletter once a week.

It feels very easy to be authentic, and I love it, and it feels like a comfortable space.

It's not a lot of hard work for me.

And I've been trying to lean into that.

That's why I've gone from monthly to weekly this year.

Socials, I just, if it doesn't feel great, if it's like a waste of my time, it feels like a lot of energy, it feels like an energy drain.

And I don't really have that energy to give.

And I don't, for me, I don't feel like I'm seeking an authentic voice.

Like I'm back in an avoiding phase.

And should I be?

I've gone so back and forth with this all year.

And I think that said something, right?

Like it says, I don't want to just drop it and forget about it.

So yeah, I will be useful to ponder it for next week, but it does not feel as active and productive as ads, but maybe it just still needs doing.

How about you?

Yeah.

I like you.

I love doing my emails.

I feel like I'm great at emails.

I love doing social posts.

I feel like I'm good at writing social posts.

My whole problem really is, like, I feel like I am my authentic self online.

And I feel like my sales pitches are always quite like very steeped in my own personality.

But I'm not getting any, like, nobody comments on my posts, nobody replies to my emails.

So I'm obviously not hitting the mark.

So although I feel like I'm being authentic, it's not quite working somehow.

So I feel like that's where I'm kind of at, is that I don't know what the magic solution is for this.

Whether it's just like, just keep going, or if it's to try and be more direct and specific with what I'm saying and posting, I don't know.

So I'm going to have some big thoughts on that this week, and really decide whether I want to be just like really hammer it and be really obvious about what I'm trying to do, or whether I'm just going to keep going and feel like I'm being my best self, and that's good enough.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I think good thoughts this week, useful thoughts I needed.

And I am looking forward to chatting with you next week.

Any last thoughts?

No, I just want my curse to be over.

I will send you all the positive curse ending wishes I can.

It's early Halloween, so I presume that's the end of it.

I think that might be the end of it.

I think that this has just been a big prank.

And on Halloween, someone's just going to jump out and say, it was a joke.

And then everything will go back to normal.

Yeah.

So we're doing all about that.

Yeah.

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