Welcome to your next step of the Self Publishing Mountain.

I'm Matilda Swift, author of Quintessentially British Cozy Mysteries.

And I'm Samantha Cummings, author of Young Adult Books About Magic, Myths and Monsters.

I've written the books, changed their covers, tweaked their blurbs, tried tools from a dozen ad courses, and I'm still not seeing success.

Now, we're working together to plot and plan our way from barely making ends meet to pulling in a living wage.

Join us on our journey where we'll be mastering the pen to snag that paycheck.

Hello and welcome to Pen to Paycheck Authors podcast.

I'm Samantha Cummings, here with my co-host Matilda Swift, and we're here to write our way to financial success.

We're two indie authors with over a dozen books between us and still a long way to go towards the quit the day job dream.

If that sounds familiar, listen along for our mastery through missteps journey.

Each week, we cover a topic to help along the way.

This week's topic is social media.

But before we get into that, what are your friends and fringes of the week?

My first wing is that I just noticed that I didn't swap our names, so thank you for making the correct order.

No problem.

I'm a pro.

I have had such a roller coaster week that they need a new word for it.

Roller coasters are envious of my week because I had so many ups and downs.

So this was the big exciting week that I got my book bump and could not have had a more catastrophic failure.

Book bump was fine.

I set up other deals around it.

And then when my countdown deal went in progress, I set one up for the UK and the US.

On the UK, I checked the deal.

It's in action.

Fine.

I checked the US store.

Nothing.

It's sort of showing full price.

And I contact the help, Amazon help, quote unquote help, many times.

And they keep lying in different ways about like, oh, you've already had a countdown deal, so you can't have another one.

I'm not sure because otherwise I wouldn't set one up.

Oh, you can't see it because you're in the UK.

Oh, I can see it.

Here's a screenshot of the deals.

Like, either you photoshop them or actually what I think has happened is you've taken a picture of the UK where I've told you the deal is working.

Anyway, I've got a long time because I've got I've got a lot of anecdotes now about speaking to Amazon help.

I've, I know all the ways to contact them now.

So that's helpful for me in future, but they were not helpful.

So I had a countdown just set up for a week, they were not able to do anything at all for the entire week to rectify the fact that the deal showed is in progress on my dashboard and just nothing was changing with the price.

They were like some sort of technical problem that apparently the entire Amazon tech team was working on from the sounds of it.

Not true.

But you know, that's how they made it sound.

Didn't get fixed.

So I had lost the money.

Basically, I spent hundreds of dollars on a Bookbub deal.

I feel really glad now that Bookbub made the deals cheaper because they've got more in every one.

Also, Bookbub were nice about it.

I had to pay to run it again, but they will let me run it again at another date when I have to do the application process again.

So lovely.

And basically, what I mean is I can make back the money that I lost and then break even.

So good, I guess.

But yeah, so that was a real low.

And it came with like, at the same time as other things that I wouldn't really have noticed or been bothered by, like, like someone left a rubbish comment on one of my ads about like, Oh, we didn't read of the book or something.

And then I was like checking my read through my new series.

It wasn't as much as I wanted it to be.

Or, you know, I was like, Oh, maybe it's another week, I would have been like, Oh, it's fine, because, you know, the books have been come out quite quickly.

So I think it's gonna take time for people to read through them.

And it was just like, it felt like, you know, a pile on as in it didn't feel that bad.

But like, it just felt like one thing after another.

And I was like, Oh, this is, it was horrible.

And I just I hate things that I can't control.

And I just could not control the Amazon thing.

And I kept getting messages from like the different people I got deals with being like, Oh, your book's not discounted.

Are we gonna have to remove from the thing?

I was like, yes, I guess.

And the Amazon people are nice.

They, you know, sorry, the Facebook, no, but people weren't nice about it, like in terms of back and forth about, you know, we can't do anything, but here's what we can do next time and get something else set up.

But it just took up so much of my week, which I didn't really have time to do.

So absolute low points.

And just it, you know, magnified other kind of tiny things that were annoying that week.

But absolute high points.

I hit another target like in my contract on my co-written book last week.

So we, I finished the first draft and we had a meeting about it this week.

We've got plans for the next one, next draft, which I'm going to try and do really quickly before I go to Greece, which in a couple of weeks, I'm looking forward to that holiday.

I had a good chat about that.

And then I also, everything got fixed with my door where the truck crashed into it a few months ago.

So it's finally done.

I got a bit of lino in the hallway replaced with like bright pink lino, so it looks fantastic.

So that's all done and that really sort of freed me up to get on with some other DIY in my house.

So I've been like painting and putting up mirrors.

I've painted a whole wall.

I'm going to finish designing this evening and like put some things on there.

So that's what really positive and energizing.

I met up with our mutual friend today.

That was lovely.

And also this weekend, I had planned to plan out the novella that I'm going to write when I'm in Greece.

And I have some minutes spare in my dictation app.

I'm using Otter AI.

Had some minutes spare left over from dictating the co-written novel.

And I dictated the plan.

And I dictated 8,500 words of the plan, had the whole thing in place.

And it's relatively easy to keep it in my head all at once.

That took basically an afternoon and then the next morning.

Done.

And then I was like, maybe I should also start planning the book for the series, which I have to start after the Nevada.

I would have planned half of that.

Yeah.

And again, dictated 8,500 words.

That was this weekend.

Done.

So ups and downs.

We're all busy right about this weekend, or this week in general.

But I'm glad I've had some positive things this week.

And it was so nice to be able to like chat in the discord about the horrible things and just get a looping, you know, supportive, but also not even just supportive and helpful, but just like being there and saying like, you know, these things happen.

Don't let yourself get bothered by like Amazon.

You can't control it.

Yeah.

Which is helpful.

Because I think I can really remember back like times where other bad things have happened.

I've had no one to talk about it.

And it felt, you know, depth of despair, sort of horrible.

I felt really powerless.

So it's been lovely this week to just be able to like go in there and moan to other people.

Yeah, but yes, lots of lots of feelings this week.

I've had like a year's worth of feelings in one week.

So I'm ready to go to Greece and relax.

How about you?

I haven't had such an up and down week.

I've had just generally a great week.

I was away in Harrogate last week, which is why the podcast video looks like it was filmed on a potato because it was on my laptop.

I was sort of like, I said, my good, my good computer.

Yeah, I had a great week.

I spent like most of the week just eating good food and walking a lot.

Me and my ghost boyfriend always walk loads when we're in Harrogate.

I was reading through the books that I'm going to start editing in May and making notes about what my editing plan is going to be.

It felt like that was where my life was supposed to be.

Whenever I go there, that's the place where I really want to live and be my successful author self.

I really see myself living there.

I love Yorkshire and it's just like my spiritual home.

I can't explain it.

I just love it there so much.

It's also not technically nearer to me, but like easier to get to and nicer to visit than where you live now.

Which is like, because you live right next to school.

Yeah, definitely.

When I move there, which I will, we'll be able to do our meetups, like probably easier.

Yeah, yeah, it was just great.

And yeah, I did a lot of work.

I've been working a lot on art.

We're doing, I'm working on a secret-ish, but not so secret website for the podcast.

And so I've been doing a lot of work on that.

And that's been really fun because obviously, I'm trying to do this side business, side hustle of website stuff.

And it's just nice to do a self-made project doing that.

Reminding myself that, like, I'm good at it.

I know how to do it.

I really like it.

What else have I put on my little list?

My edits go, well, oh, I've also had a great week this week.

So I've got, I'll talk about this more soon in this episode, because it's going to be about this episode.

But I have been playing around with social media and some paid ads on Instagram.

And as I currently have some 99p deals on my books, I've been getting a few, like, reads and purchases.

And so my ranking has gone up.

So both my first and second book in my young adult Werewolf fantasy series were top 100, well within the top 100 for most of the week for the subcategories, which for me is like, amazing because, you know.

Yeah, like really nice to see that they're doing well in the subcategories.

And just in general, like they are, they haven't got a lot of reviews because I'm still kind of building up.

But it's just nice to see what you can get when you put a bit of money into it, which obviously we'll talk about very soon.

And my whinge of the week is just that the month is almost over.

And I don't understand how.

And all of my plans for this year was like, oh, I'll do this this week, this this week.

And then when it gets to May, like it'll be great.

I'll just be doing this one thing.

But no, no, everything is landed on my desk this week.

I've got to go back to my cover designer about my September release, because we need to start doing the design for that.

My formatter has sent me the document for my May release.

To proofread, but I'm also trying to get my editing plan set up for the 1st of May as well.

So it's like, I feel like everything is just like, oh, everything you were working on is now on your desk.

Like you were juggling and now you dropped them all.

And now you have to like figure out how to rejuggle them.

So that's my win.

Just just that I'm just.

At the point that I didn't want to be, just the point that I was constantly trying to avoid, it's not that it's actually not a lot of work.

It's just for me, I like to spread things out.

Just otherwise my brain feels a little bit like jumbled up.

But yeah, just throw emails out.

Okay, let's hear your win.

Yes, and that because you reminded me, I decided to try and, you know, pull Victory from the Drawers of Defeat this week.

And I had been contemplating for a while, recovering my first series, which is my longest series, and both in terms of like number of books, but also books are longer.

So if I could get it to advertise well, it would make its money back much more easily than my other series.

My new series is currently only three books and they are short.

So it's very hard to break even on the ads.

But this series, if I could get it to be even vaguely good, like the ads would pay for themselves.

But the covers are fine, but they're just not gripping enough for ads.

And so my cover design is actually quite cheap.

And she's done my two other series.

I was like, you know what, I'm just going to see if I can put a little bit of money that is going to actually, if it brings the cost of my ads down enough, it would pay for itself quite quickly, and just test a new book cover on Book 1.

And she's lovely, and she's always very fast.

I shouldn't do a draft today.

It's not quite right.

I've got some edits, but she'll easily make those as well.

So I feel really, and I felt excited when I saw it.

I felt like, oh, it's cute.

And I can see how it just needs a few tweaks to be really good.

So yeah, that feels like a really positive thing and leads us into our discussion.

So today we are talking about social media.

And we're talking about both organic and paid use.

So both at kind of different stages with social media and focus on different things, which I think is interesting because this year we're trying to look at making a strategy.

And I think this is a good point at which our tactics diverge and will help inform our strategies.

So just start by saying, like, what have you been doing on social media?

You mentioned a little bit about ads, but I know that's not your primary thing that you do on that.

Yeah, that was just a knee-jerk kind of, oh, I'm going to do a boosted post on Instagram.

Because I am kind of phasing into some ad stuff.

But at the moment, for the last almost five months now, I have been definitely just focused on organic reach on social media.

And I've been doing Instagram and TikTok.

And I currently have three accounts on TikTok, which I'm posting to every day and trying to post to my Instagram every day.

And yeah, I'm just I'm putting different things on different accounts.

So my Instagram account, I'm really focused on just like nice graphics, reels, like whatever kind of floats my boat on Instagram.

I don't feel like Instagram is the best place for me.

But I enjoy it.

Like that's it's my most social, my most social platform.

So that's the place where I like I leave comments, people message me on it.

It's definitely the most back and forth with other people.

And I really enjoy scrolling and I get a lot of inspiration from Instagram.

So I kind of use Instagram as a playground, I'm going to say, because I know a lot of people find social media really stressful and like overthink it.

But I've definitely been not doing that this year on Instagram.

I've been just having such a play with it and enjoying what I'm posting and testing things and trying like hashtags or no hashtags.

And it's been so unstressful.

It's been really nice.

And I think it's because I don't expect it to convert anyone.

I don't expect to convert readers on Instagram.

I just am looking for just like a bit of back and forth, maybe some comments, getting reach with my stories and things.

So that's been really nice.

TikTok, I have been trying definitely more to figure out how to convert.

I did set up a TikTok shop, but I have not got anything in the shop at the moment because I ran out of like paperback copies.

So I thought I'll just kind of put it on the back burner.

But for TikTok, I've been definitely using it more, well, less as a fun place to be and more of a very...

What's the word I'm looking for?

Intentional posts, trying to stick to...

Because at the start of the year, we did that, the little fun game where we just posted TikTok three times a day, tried to do the same posts over and over again to try and build momentum.

And I've been sticking to that and I'm still doing that.

I'm doing two posts a day and just the same types of posts.

And playing like that kind of game of trying to tell the algorithm what to expect and who to bring to my account.

And I've been really enjoying that.

I've also been doing an account where I'm just posting quotes from my books, like Kate Hall tells people to do.

And it's not getting me very far right now, but I'm enjoying trying.

So yeah, I'm just, and then I've got like an account where I just post myself lip syncing to like quotes from Buffy and Vampire Diaries and The Craft.

And I get quite good, good attraction on that because that's just my kind of fan account where I'm just being silly.

Yeah.

And so instead of doing like a lot of adverts and things, I'm just I'm spreading myself out, like casting a wide net to see what happens organically.

Yeah.

And you think that sounds like that sounds unintentional.

But I think you it's useful to go back to you when you're saying like you're TikTok intentionally, like I think I because I obviously see a lot of your posts.

And it's almost like you're doing a lot of like iteration.

So you're trying something if it works, you're like you're adding hookier and hookier music, you're adding like, not necessarily better graphics, but like graphics that I would assume convert better, like there are like a finger snap, you've got to get into this, like it feels like your videos look more compelling.

I'm presuming that is just part of the process of like making the same thing again and again, is seeing like getting a feeling for what works and what doesn't even sort of regardless of the algorithm's feedback, because I think TikTok can be nonsense, like you could post the same thing twice, you know, in an A, B test in an imaginary world and you would not get the same results.

Which I have done recently and I did not get the same results.

I think that the post that I did, I think it's got over or almost 5,000 views on one post.

And then I did some other posts in between which were kind of similar.

And then I thought, I'll just do that post again, same image, same quotes and see if it converts again.

And it did not convert at all.

It was just like 200 views or something.

So it's definitely, TikTok is very fickle.

It's kind of difficult to figure out what it wants, but also is a lot.

I just absolutely hate.

Yeah, but it still inspires me to try.

Like I really like the process of picking an image.

Like I love sourcing images.

So I love the process of sourcing an image, deciding, I kind of like just do the same quotes over and over again, and using the ones that are, like reusing the ones that get the most traction.

I just really like that process.

It feels like it's like fun and creative, but also like I'm not just, I'm not casting a huge net.

Like I'm casting a wide net in terms of like where I'm posting, but I'm definitely being intentional with what is going into it.

And I feel like that's like, it feels fun and also like I'm doing something that will benefit me in the long run.

Yeah.

And I just, I think, I think partly because Cozy Mystery readers are not generally proportionally a large number on TikTok.

It felt like when I kind of hit deflation points of just like, oh, I feel like I was learning something and it's getting better and then nothing's happening.

I'm so easily, you know, put off by that because I like to learn stuff and it feels like on TikTok it's impossible to learn.

Even the same, like I've tried a Kate Hall style account.

And I think, I think a lot of the stuff that people talk about the works on TikTok works predominantly for romance.

And we talked last week, I think about hooks and how I think there's fundamentally quite a different thing that we need to be doing that maybe doesn't learn the stuff TikTok out of them.

And you know, without really, really kind of being able to master it in some way, which I'm just not going to do.

But I have found it interesting, I'm doing the TikTok account for the podcast.

And it has been really interesting to figure out like how to, we get clips given automatically by the program we record in.

It generates what it thinks are the best clips.

But often they start a little bit slow for TikTok.

So I might clip something from the end of the video and put it in the beginning.

And it is a useful exercise to try and see like, what do I think is gonna grip someone really quickly?

So I think TikTok is really good for that.

And just figuring out like ways in which to interest people, not necessarily grip, it doesn't have to be the word, but like ways to engage people.

And I think I do want to return to thinking about that for Cozy Mysteries.

But I think TikTok requires so much persistence and consistency, that it needs to be like the primary thing that you do for a while.

And I'm just not there now.

I do feel like I'm doing that with the podcast social media.

So it feels really like kind of keeping up that skill.

And I'm still pondering how to kind of get that in place for my own TikToks.

But I...

It's not for me right now.

So I am focusing on Instagram and Facebook, which I feel like are relatively similar in terms of...

I'm like posting the same things often.

But I feel like it's relatively similar in terms of kind of the audience and the way they interact on there.

So I don't see a purpose to posting different things.

I think I'm getting more engagement on Instagram as a rule.

I'm posting on my Facebook page, which just really has poor reach on pages, but useful to put stuff on.

And we set ourselves the kind of 60 day challenge of can you post something three times a day that would tie into your social object.

And it has been really enjoyable to see how much easier that makes it to be like, okay, so I'm going to post something and it can be like, I'm trying to be really open with it.

And just like it can be a story, it can be a read, it could be a picture.

But I'm trying to share and be more human.

And narrow it down to like, okay, what are you doing today that's going to be related to can you make a video of it?

And it could just be literally, I post a video of myself like making a pot of tea.

What can you post that's just like connected to your cats?

Very easy.

They're adorable.

But rather than just posting a picture of the cats, I'm often trying to like think of a way to tie it into mysteries and writing and stuff like that.

And then also, I have my book jewelry.

And I started the saga of the stick that is made several posts.

And it feels like a really nice, interesting thing to share.

Again, I'm not necessarily thinking about it being like a thing for book conversion, but it feels like a nice way to to practice engagement online and practice relating as a human through social media.

And so it doesn't feel as uncomfortable as I felt in the past when I share things because I just I felt really a scatter shot of like, is this a thing I'm meant to be sharing?

Is this appropriate?

Does this meet my audience's interests?

And now it feels really like easy, like just, yeah, oh, anytime I'm coming across something or doing something, I think, oh, I could put this as a post because it belongs to my social object.

So yes, I have I have a stick that is going on a wall that's going to hang my book jewelry from it.

So that I'm in fact going to finish it tonight.

I've been painting one of my house this weekend that's going to go on.

It's inspired me to get back into some DIY.

So it's going to be so beautiful.

It's going to be the world's best stick.

I can't wait to see the final thing.

I've been really enjoying doing the social stuff in the stories.

I've been doing a couple of posts, but I'm mostly just sticking to stories because I really like the kind of vlog, blog style of stories and sharing my day today, and that's been really fun.

Like last week, I didn't realize that this might have been my social object the whole time, but I didn't realize it is my dinosaur pajamas, which have caused, I feel, the biggest uproar, pun intended, is how many people commented about my pajamas.

So I have these pajamas.

This is non-spawn.

So I'm not being paid to say this.

They're from a company called Chelsea Piers, and I got them for Christmas, and they are the cutest pajamas, and they're so soft, and they've just got dinosaurs all over them.

Can you send me a link to show notes?

I will, yeah.

They are...

It's funny, I almost bought them for myself so many times, and then I opened a Christmas present on Christmas Day, and my sister bought them for me.

We're very in sync, but we're also both on the same algorithm on Instagram.

So it's not surprising, because we always send each other videos, and it's like, oh, I've already seen this, because we're just showing the same stuff.

But it was funny how that one thing, which I was just in my pyjamas in the morning because I was on holiday, got so many interactions from people, it made me realize...

I mean, I commented, right?

I was like, I love those pyjamas, because they look like grown up pyjamas.

I think that's the interesting thing is they're kind of in cute pastel colours, they look soft and elegant, but they've got little outlines of dinosaurs on them, and it just looks like it really captures the emotion of you, of just like, yeah, I'm a grown up, I'm stylish, I'm classy, but also I love dinosaurs.

Incredibly me.

It's funny because I have, I'm going to go off on a tangent, I have a pyjama drawer in my dresser because I have so many pyjamas.

I love pyjamas, they're one of my favourite things.

I have always wanted dinosaur pyjamas, but I also really want sushi pyjamas, and I've been trying to track them down for years.

So I really want to get some sushi pyjamas.

I've got sushi socks as well.

I feel like maybe pyjamas is my next thing, like my next social thing, which I might try.

It could be like a series I start, which is just me in cute pyjamas.

But it's been really an interesting thing, and I've also been in tarot readings every morning because I like to do tarot myself, and it plays with my whole genre of being witchy and magical.

That's been really fun as well and made it really easy.

Just having those things and sharing my coffee of the day and how many coffees I'm drinking, and what coffee machine I'm using.

If you know it's a thing that you've set an objective to share, it doesn't feel weird to share it because that's my thing.

I'm sharing my coffee posts, and I'm watching your coffee posts, and I'm interested every time.

It's great.

Yeah, I'm loving it.

And that's how I feel now that I've been doing TikTok for what month are we in?

April, for four months straight.

I feel like my TikTok is similar in that it feels easy to post because I know exactly what I'm posting every day.

I'm not like going all over the place, but I am in May, hopefully gonna start doing some paid socials.

So even though I've been doing like just organic stuff, I've been doing, this is going against what everybody tells you to do.

I've been doing some boosted Instagram posts because it's there.

And I just like, I know I should plan posts or plan ads, but sometimes it just is a feeling that I have and I go with it.

And I think, how much money do I feel like spending right now?

Just to boost this post and see what happens.

So it's kind of just been me dipping a toe into the world of ads and trying to see what happens without putting pressure on me to be actually doing like actual research.

Because I really need to ease myself into it.

It's a mental and spiritual state that I can't just jump into.

I think that goes back to our idea of like picking strategies and aligning a tactic with that.

Like you couldn't just jump into saying, OK, I'm going to make ads the center of my strategy.

I love data.

I'm going to do that.

Yeah, I was chatting this week with the Cozy author who writes as Mona Marple.

And we were talking about ads and we both did the Nicola Zarek course.

And she was saying, oh, I feel really, you know, like there's so much data in it.

And I was like, I love that about it.

That feels like the best thing about it.

I think for me, the thing that I don't love is like that requires so much attention to get started, like so much testing.

And obviously, it still is so much to the capriciousness of social media.

And they're like, you can have an ad that has a certain result, then you move it into like a winner's group and it doesn't have the same result.

You're like, well, that's annoying.

I tested it and now the test is slightly changed.

And you can't control everything.

So, you know, I'll have like trying to have a number of ads run at the same time.

I'll put them in a campaign and have like campaign budget optimization.

And then because Facebook doesn't actually know who buys the books, it judges who was the best ad based on conversion and I think cost per click.

And that's actually, for me, it was given like 90% of my budget to one ad that actually was just slightly underperforming.

So, but because it was almost all the money, it meant if it wasn't just slightly underperforming, it was like more significantly underperforming than it had done in the past.

But because it was all the money, it meant that nothing else could compensate for it, whereas, you know, it could have done if it was more even.

And so I just turned it off and then I let it run again.

I turned it off from the next ad that was like that.

And actually now I've got a small number running, but they are all better ads, which is like a vast improvement.

But it does feel like I think I could get them better if I put more attention to it.

I just don't have, I have obviously this week I have an ads time.

But I think I need to schedule myself some very specific, like go in and review and work on your ads time.

And that's all I would need.

But again, that's not a strategy that would work.

That's not a tactic that would work for you.

So your strategy wouldn't be based around ads.

Yeah, yeah, I've read definitely, I want to do more ads, obviously, because ads is the thing that helps come like, make you money.

Like I know that I'm not I'm not one of these people that thinks, like that I should be gaining success with literally no attempt at ads whatsoever.

I see a lot of people on threads talking about it.

I'm wondering why, like they have no sales and I can't help but think that's probably because they're not putting any money into their marketing.

Like I know that that's a thing and that I'm fine.

Like the way that I spend money is definitely slow and steady rather than like go.

So it's not the only way right?

Like Sasha Black doesn't spend money on ads.

Yeah.

And I'm just really focused on TikTok.

And I think there are ways of saying like, there's no world in which I'm going to get good enough for TikTok to make it work.

Like I would just never do that.

So I would rather spend the money and follow the data.

And I think this is what we want to spend this year doing is figure out like what tactics can I, can I do it, like lend themselves to both my style and like what I'm keen to do?

Yeah, how can I build that into a strategy?

So I don't think, like, you know, I am running ads and I'm finding it successful.

But I don't think it's something where if you know, that it absolutely doesn't align with the way that you think or the way you're going to run things.

And in the past, I've really struggled with like, just turning some stuff on, looking at it quizzically, and then be like, well, I'll turn that off, and not really be able to do anything with it, because I just didn't have, I tried different people's like ads courses that didn't seem to align with anything that I could understand, they'd be like, Oh, just test some different ads.

I was like, but that's like, that's what about them?

And it's only since like, being able to go through the necrotheric process of like, he's like, do X number of ads, test these number of things with them, test them in this way, set the ad up this way, like, perfect.

That's what that's what's me.

So I do think there's a benefit to kind of thinking, and like noticing what aligns with your own personal skills and willingness.

Yeah, I do think, I'm hoping that I won't have to rely on ads, because I think that I'm in a genre that is very, it's probably a little bit easier to go viral, or gain a following, like a bigger following.

I think like young adult and fantasy writers have the ability to be more of a social figure, and that benefits.

And my dream would be that I would become a social figure, that I would be, like, I just feel like I was born to be famous.

And we always talk about this.

I can't imagine why nobody's following me around with a camera crew and just filming me every day, because I'm so funny.

I just, I like attention and I feel like I'd be good at it.

And I am hoping that that is what's going to win me all of the money.

But I do also want to know, like, I want to try ads and know how they work, how they can work for me and whether it's like all the time or just campaigns that I run through a year.

I want to understand how that works for me.

So next month, I'm going to try and do some, but my boosted posts and stuff have done well and they have converted.

And it's funny, actually, because in the past, I have run Facebook ads and done it through the whole system and set up images and call to actions and done multiple versions and tested to see which ones work best.

And it's never really brought me...

Like, I've never gotten book sales from it, really.

I've never noticed an increase in my sales.

But I have definitely seen an increase in my sales through boosted posts.

And it's probably because I'm doing...

It's a 99p sale.

So it's definitely more interesting to people to see, like, oh, a cheap book.

Yeah, I'll buy that.

So it's been really fun to see.

And it's been really nice to see, like, my book sales have gone up and I've been ranking because of it.

And I've got some KU reads on there that somebody's reading the book at the moment.

And every day, like, my figures are going up.

It's been really nice.

And I haven't put a lot of money in.

That's been like 15 quid spread over a week.

You know, I guess that is nothing.

But it's nice.

It is nice to see that if I spend money that way, I'm making money back.

Not breaking even.

It's still a loss, but it's results.

And I have not really seen results before.

But obviously, the more that I get into the series and with the last book coming out next month, oh God, like 20 something days, I can see how it's going to get better.

Having a full series and that's really nice.

I think this time last year, I couldn't really understand how I could ever make ads work or make money from an ad.

And now I am starting to see it, I'm starting to get it.

It's taking me a long time, but the information is slowly slotting into place.

I'm a slow learner, it's okay.

Right, yeah, I'm not sure, I'm not sure that's true.

I think it's just that the learning is hard.

Because I think there are things to learn that you, there's like layers to things you have to learn.

So that you think, okay, I'll learn this set of things, I'll understand it.

And then it's like, oh, no, I, oh, there's more things to learn.

So I think it's just that you can't learn it all quickly.

There's no, there's no way to do that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, it is really useful to run ads for me and to be gathering data.

And at the moment, I'm running them, not being happy to, but like accepting that I'm making a loss while I'm still testing ads and, and the loss is getting less and less.

And now I've got a third book out.

Um, I think I'm, can probably refine ads enough to, to at least break even on this.

But it does feel like, oh, it's, it's such a slow business.

That like, now I've got three, even if I could like get to break even on three, which it's tough to do because the books are just so short.

If they were longer, it would actually be much easier.

And obviously I've done this to myself, and I couldn't have had three books by now if they were longer.

So, you know, it's, it's a circuitous argument.

Like there's no way to be further ahead.

But like, I can really see how I'm hampered by not having enough books in the series, and I won't have enough books in the series really to be like making a good profit until like early next year, to be making like a good amount of money and to really be able to test that.

And that just feels like, gosh, that's so painfully slow.

And it's like, can I really keep running ads?

You know, not making a profit?

And like, what's the point of that?

But then if I don't, then the books have been ranking.

And then I'm also like losing chance to be keep refining the ads and keep improving them.

And I think I can get to the stage where three consistently breaks even.

So it's just, you know, about doing that.

And yeah, and I think I'm also looking forward to it.

So I did run ads on my first series and they just didn't convert as well at all.

Like in no way can you place a breaking even.

Not making enough sales at all, even with like redo calculations, you know, based on sort of guesswork, didn't sell enough.

And I think it is like the cover and the blur, because it's such a good reminder of like, the ad has got nothing to do with the book, the ad is just the ad, like, the ad skill is the ad skill.

It's like the packaging is all you need to work on.

And so that's inspired me to get this new cover to see, can I get my book by Book 1?

That's all I want to do with my next test.

And then if that doesn't convert, then I can think, okay, is it something about the blurb?

And then if that converts, but it doesn't get read through, then what is it about Book 1 or the hook into Book 2?

And I kind of keep working on that and just feel like, oh, it's nice to have things to be able to test and measure and know.

And definitely previously when I've had a few books, it's felt like I just couldn't tell what was wrong.

Like, is it the book, the cover, the are there not enough reviews?

Is it the writing?

Is it, I don't know.

And so now I feel like even though I'm not suddenly a millionaire, I now feel much more like I am doing things.

I am actively doing things that I am learning from.

That's what I like, actually.

I'm learning at the moment.

Yeah.

I am not just throwing money and then be like, well, now I've got less money now.

Yeah.

I tried.

I did something.

But yeah, but I think it's...

I think I've really raced into ads in the past.

Like I did ads when I had like a book out, just like, I just want to see how it works.

And I was like, I couldn't even figure out how the Facebook platform works.

Like, I don't know what I'm doing at all.

But I think I'm really going to focus in on Facebook ads.

Absolutely cannot tolerate the amount of additional work I'd have to do to get Amazon ads right now.

And I know people are like, oh, just put an auto ad on.

But it's like, no, doesn't do anything.

Like it will serve and get no conversions and then you've got to change your bids.

It's like, I just like, there's too many layers that I don't know what they are.

And I don't have the time or effort or energy to do that right now.

So no, I if I were doing it full time, like I would that would be my next step is to try and learn Amazon ads.

And it would be useful, I'm sure.

And good.

I just have an absolute aversion to it at the moment.

And I'm, as long as I'm learning something.

I'll be learning Facebook ads.

I'm not set around doing nothing.

But I, yeah, I'm not here for Amazon ads right now.

No, it's also like Amazon ads are just outside of the, the ballpark of like we're spending so much money on, not so much money, so much time in socials.

That's like, it's kind of fun to play around in that.

You are interacting every day.

You can like go and look at your ads and then look at your posts.

And everything's kind of all in the same place.

And it feels like at least like everything feels more together.

And I like that.

I like being able to like look at the stats.

Yeah, like being able to look at the stats and not have to go somewhere else.

And Amazon is just like, oh, it's not connected to anything.

I look at socials as like as a, I would say, you know, a large part of my free time is like being on social media.

But like, it means that I am, even when I'm being lazy and just like sitting and scrolling, I am learning things that will help me figure out like what makes someone stop when they're scrolling.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

We've both been sharing.

Just go do that with Amazon ads.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Like, why would you never look?

I never look at ads on Amazon.

It's terrible.

But we've both been sharing videos and stuff with each other on social media.

And it's videos and adverts for books that really make both of us stop and say, oh, stunning.

Yeah.

Oh, like, oh, that video is so nice.

Oh, that hook really got me and I actually stopped scrolling.

And we've been sending them back and forth.

And it's reignited my desire to really try and make flashy graphics rather than just doing like images and trying to do like vibe pictures and stuff.

I really want to get into video and start doing more video graphics and...

Yeah.

And also like video ads aren't meant to be much cheaper.

And that is something I definitely want to do.

And it was a big focus of the Nicos-Eric course that I did was very much like, they are cheaper, they convert less well by quite a long margin.

But the cost per click is so much lower, it's worth it.

And it's a less committed space.

So, yeah, I would love to get those working, because also I think both of us quite enjoy making graphics and videos and that that and it would be good to kind of have some to test out.

And I, I still haven't tested any video ads because I just feel like I'm still stuck on the idea of like how to get that emotional resonance in the hook you talked about last week.

Yeah, that I want to get.

I feel like something's churning in my brain.

So I think often when I get stuck on an idea, like I feel like I've been talking about the same hooks idea ages, like how do you get a hook for a non-fiction thing?

I know I talk about this a lot, but it feels like something in the back of my brain is working on it and I will crack it.

Yeah.

So I'm going to keep pushing through, because if my brain's coming back to it, that's because it's, there's something there that I'm close to getting.

So I'm going to keep persisting with it.

Even I'm sure it's, people are bored of me talking about it.

No, never.

I can't wait because I'm the same.

I know like if I keep thinking about it, it's because I know in the back of my mind, it's like I'm calculating.

Something's going to be figured out and you're just waiting for the click.

And I love that feeling.

I love it when that happens.

So I can't wait for yours to happen.

Yeah.

I mean, that's really like the thing that I love most about writing, right?

And like writing mysteries is like that I'm often like mulling a story for ages in my head.

And like when I make quite a detailed plan before I start writing, maybe not what some of us would call a plan, like it looks almost like a very, very rough draft.

And I do that because like I always want to have the story unfold before me.

And then I'll get to the end and I'll be like...

And so the draft that I'm planning at the moment, the book for at the moment, I just start at the beginning of like, someone's dead.

Don't know who it is.

I'll figure that out in a minute.

And so I'm halfway through the book and I've got no clue who could possibly have killed this person because she's got no reason at all to kill her.

And she was killed and put inside someone else's shop.

No reason, I don't know why.

And I'm so looking forward to finding out.

And I know that I have laid, I trust my brain to have laid enough threats to by the time I get to that point, to be like, oh, that's who it was.

I mean, I know why.

I love that because my books always have a mystery and I love getting to the end and be like, oh, this is where they did it.

I knew, like I know I created this character, but I actually like, it worked out and the story came together.

And I feel like I am so used to doing that now.

Like, like I know when to stop.

So like in the moment, I've stopped about halfway through the plan because I think that my brain has not got enough things worrying to figure out the ending.

And I feel the same way about these hooks.

Like my brain keeps worrying.

And I think I'm not making a progress right now because my brain knows, like you need to get more things that you're missing, some pieces that need to come in together.

But I think I'm going to get it.

I love that.

Yeah, I feel like we're both going to get stuff.

I feel like this year, when I was on the train coming home, which took me five trains actually, because the trains were horrendous.

So on my five train journey home, absolutely ridiculous, I kind of had an epiphany where I was just constantly thinking, epiphany.

I was just, my brain was worrying because I was trying to think about, you know, like, the writing business and what I've got to do next.

And my to do list is forever in the back of my mind.

And I'm trying to like juggle everything and make sure everything's like moving forwards.

And then I had like a moment where everything stopped and I thought, like, just enjoy this part of the process.

Just, this is just where you are right now.

Don't stress, just keep moving forwards.

It's not that big of a deal.

And I was like, oh, yeah, okay.

And then I just enjoyed the other four trains back.

Stop thinking about it, isn't you?

That's why I had to be like this week about the book mob thing.

It's like, the money is gone.

Like, and it's just money.

And I have a day job that means I can absorb that cost.

And it is of no stress.

Like it will come out of money I could spend somewhere else.

And it will come out of money I could have put into savings.

And like, but I'm not, I mean, no existential threat.

So it's like, what a delight to be in a position where like, something goes terribly, terribly wrong out of your control.

And you can just eat it.

You can just absorb it.

I was like, yeah, I'm, I want to appreciate that rather than like moan about the thing that happened.

So it's been nice to see that this week.

And yeah, to also kind of feel like I could get past it quite quickly.

Like I did have like a day or two where I just like really felt like emotionally affected by it.

And then after that, I was just mostly frustrated and annoyed by contacting Amazon, which is like an experience everyone has.

Yeah, so but I did not feel particularly bothered by the thing that happened, which is, yeah, good.

And, and yeah, I had other positive things to be going on with.

And I feel like I'm so like constantly testing out new things.

I hated my plan, it had been really helpful this week to see like, can I get my plan together much faster?

Because normally it would take me like a week or two to put together a plan this much depth.

But I'm, I can see now like being a dictator is much better for me because I, I can talk to myself and be like, wait, why am I thinking about this?

Why am I doing this?

Which I don't do in, in text, because I try and get it down more solidified.

But anyway, I've come back to my winds and wind just because I'm so...

But yes, anything else I want to think about with ads and social media?

No, I think just that we sort of touched on this, but I think it is something that I wish someone had said to me earlier, which is about like, there is no right guru.

There's no right person to follow.

There's just like, make sure you figure out what works doesn't work for you and find the person that is most closely aligned with that.

And it's like, I love data.

And I wish I had been more out loud about that previously and someone would have been, oh, go and do Nick as Eric then, rather than being like, oh, well, try reading, you know, this person's book or try this course, and just like hitting something lots of like, I don't, I can't see what they can see, but I can see data.

So, great.

Yeah, I never knew what the right thing to post on social media was until I realized like, I just post, if I just post what I want, then I'm enjoying it, then that's all that matters.

It's funny as well, I've noticed.

Yeah, like a big thing that I struggled with at the start of the year or like in years gone by was feeling like I couldn't repeat myself.

I couldn't repeat a post.

You do a post and then you move on, you post something different and then you post something different and you post something different and like so on and so forth.

And of late, obviously for the last four months, I've just been posting the same things over and over again.

Like I have picked a few core things that seem to do well and I've just posted those over and over again.

My TikTok insights and stuff tell me that I'm constantly just being shown to new people.

So I'm not just reaching the people that already follow me.

It's like I'm constantly being sent to people who don't follow me.

So I can just repeat, repeat, repeat.

And it's so un-stressful.

Like it's not, it's just like the easiest thing to do every day.

And I'm glad I figured that out.

It feels like, like that's something that I wish I had leaned into.

Although I just didn't know it.

I didn't know that I could do that.

But I'm glad, yeah, I'm just glad that I've, I found a rhythm that works for me and I'm still enjoying it, which I think is the best part.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that is really key, is like find a thing that works for you and that you will continue with.

Because I definitely have not continued at all regularly with my personal TikTok.

And it just, I think because what I want to post is not, it's not going to please the algorithm at all.

Whereas I find that posting on Instagram and Facebook, I feel more confident of like, the stuff that goes to my followers, all to new people, like it's going to find the right people.

It might be a smaller number on there, but there's no chance of me hitting like a big number on TikTok with like stuff that I would want to post.

And if I were going to try and draw down to being something like algorithm is successful, I think it wouldn't teach me things that I want to learn right now, which is about more like about reaching my audience and getting that emotional feeling.

Because I think I'd be trying to trick the algorithm, which is not where I need to be right now.

No, there's no point, you'll never trick the algorithm, you just will never win against the machine.

Yeah.

I think, I feel like we have nothing more to say on this, I feel like I've said everything I have.

So I will wrap it up.

Next week we are going to be talking about resources, tips and tricks.

Or why have we picked this topic?

What a good question that I wrote for myself and I realized that I don't know the answer.

I think it just feels like ages since we've had a conversation about this.

And in the Discord we cut off and share, like we've got a resources channel, so we quite often share things like podcasts to listen to, or courses we've seen.

But I think we had an episode right back at the beginning that was about like, what are the things that I use regularly?

And I think we could do with revisiting that rather than just looking at like new things all the time.

And looking at kind of what are our processes, what we're regularly using.

Because I feel like mine's changed in the last, you know, maybe over a year since we did that.

And yeah, I think it'd be a good chance to kind of catch up and swap some skills and touch base on maybe what else we want to try as well.

Yeah, I think that's probably more where I'm leaning because I feel like I haven't changed what I'm using.

I probably have drilled down.

I probably just use more like the specific things more and I've cut off the other stuff that I was trying.

But I would like, I feel like there's stuff out there that I could be using more of that would help me.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to talking about that and getting stuff for my own list of things to be looking into.

It's gonna force me into looking at what I'm using and what I could be using as well.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Okay.

Well, thank you very much everyone for listening.

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Goodbye.

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You've been listening to Pen to Paycheck Authors.

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Samantha Cummings

S02E16: What We Use Social Media For

S02E21: What Makes Social Posts Easy

S02E15: What Hooks MY Readers