S01E37: When Income Isn't Coming

Samantha and Matilda discuss income in this week's episode. Where it comes from NOW, and where it could come from in the future.

Next week Sam and Matilda will be wrapping up their Q3 goals - did they tick everything off the list, or have they fallen behind in any of their plans? Tune in next week to see, and don't forget to subscribe!

Where to find Sam and Matilda:

SAM IG: @sammowrimo

Website: www.samantha-cummings.com

Book to start with: The Deathless - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deathless-Frances-June/dp/B0915V5L6F

Most recent book: Curse of the Wild (Moons & Magic Book 1) https://amzn.eu/d/fVXwW3j

MATILDA IG: @matildaswiftauthor

Website: MatildaSwift.com

Book to start with: https://books2read.com/TheSlayoftheLand (book #1 of The Heathervale Mysteries)

Most recent book: https://books2read.com/ButterLatethanNever (book #3 of The Slippery Spoon Mysteries)

Mentioned on the show:

Chill and Prosper by Denise Duffield-Thomas: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FPGG9W5/

Money Archetype Quiz: https://www.denisedt.com/chill

Indie Authors Ascending Discord: https://discord.gg/dye7mPtC

The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061735361/

The Genius Zone by Gay Hendricks: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S7L6FV2/

Write to Riches by Renee Rose: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RW43WWS/

Transcript

Welcome to your next step of the Self Publishing Mountain.

I'm Matilda Swift, author of Quintessentially British Cozy Mysteries.

And I'm Samantha Cummings, author of Young Adult Books About Magic, Myths and Monsters.

I've written the books, changed their covers, tweaked their blurbs, tried tools from a dozen ad courses, and I'm still not seeing success.

Now, we're working together to plot and plan our way from barely making ends meet to pulling in a living wage.

Join us on our journey where we'll be mastering the pen to snag that paycheck.

Hello, and welcome to Pen to Paycheck Authors podcast.

I'm Samantha Cummings, here with my co-host, Matilda Swift, and we're here to write our way to financial success.

We're two indie authors with over a dozen books between us and still a long way to go towards the quit the day job dream.

If that sounds familiar, listen along for our mastery through Missteps Journey.

Each week, we cover a topic to help along the way, and this week's topic is income planning.

Before that, let's do our wins and fringes of the week.

Matilda, would you like to start us off?

I know I've lived before, but I am just pure wind this week, just like knocking them out of the park winds.

I'll give you a small example and a big example.

Small example was, I'm going to write a retreat tomorrow with some other Cozy Authors and I had got some overripe bananas.

So naturally, I thought I'll bring some banana bread.

I made it today, but it's gluten free because someone there is gluten free.

And so I was very unconfident about it.

I'm not a big gluten free cooker.

So I was like, I'll give it a try.

And then I was like, I'm not sure what's going to be done in the middle.

A little bit hard to tell banana bread because it was a bit squishy in the middle.

So I cut out the middle slice.

I was like, I'm going to be really certain, I'm not going to take this cake and it's rubbish.

I'm not going to lug it all the way there.

So I cut out the middle slice.

It was fine, a bit crumblier than regular cakes I've made.

But good.

And then I spotted up on my like tin shelf, a tin that's like, oh, maybe that's gonna fit the cake for like traveling with it.

And it's hopefully the right size.

And I put it in and it was like a glove, the exact right size.

But I'd like I'd cut this slice out the middle, just thinking I'll eat the slice of cake and test it.

And it's just perfection.

It's like I had made a mold for my cake.

That's how my week is going.

That is just like everything I touch is that sort of level of perfection.

And yeah, like I've started a new book this week.

It feels like it's going really well.

Everywhere I look is just like a new resource, a new amazing thing.

The exact thing that I need is at the right time.

My great example of a thing going well is like I will talk a little bit more in terms of income streams.

Like one thing I wanted to try was the Amazon associates or affiliates, who will go different things.

Instantly got kicked off because of their bot checking things.

I put the wrong thing in the wrong box.

I had made $2.64, something big like that.

It got kicked off and I couldn't figure out, I could figure out things I could try to do differently because the bot is obviously very helpful that gives you the kickoff notice and it's like, oh, you've not put the right link in the right place.

We couldn't check this thing.

But I know an author who's done it the exact same way as me, who has it in their newsletter, which you're allowed to do now.

You need to be allowed to put affiliate links in the newsletter, you used to have to put it in the website.

But you can now, they change the rules, I think maybe March time.

But this person who I know who's done it is just infinity times more successful than me, like a very, very big, very busy author.

But I do know them, I've chatted to them, I've met them and hung out with them a few times.

I was like, you know what, I'm just going to ask them.

I could spend ages googling this and try to figure it out.

And I asked them, sent me a voicenote back within an hour, told me how to fix it.

I was like, perfect.

I, you know, I feel like I felt a bit, I'm not a great asker for help, but I did it.

I explained myself clearly, got a reply back instantly.

It's like, yes, everything is like, I'm cooking with gas.

I didn't get that expression everywhere, but it's an expression here and I love it.

This week is peak gas cooking.

How about you?

I wish I was having that kind of week.

I don't actually have many whinges.

I have got whinges, but I've kind of taken a bit of a break from writing and stuff just because I'm on the build up to a release, so I thought like, what a better time to just take a step back.

So my whinges are more non-writing related.

I have had peak, like millionaire author weekend kind of things happening this weekend.

So yesterday, I had the ultimate day yesterday and went out for lunch slash brunch with some friends I haven't seen for a while with their children who I'd never met.

One of my best friends had a baby, so I met her for the first time.

Kids love me.

I'm not one for kids, but they absolutely love me.

And probably for the people who are seeing this clip, my hair is currently bright pink.

And so of course, kids think that I'm the best person ever.

And that was just lovely.

I had like, I would just walked loads yesterday in the sun, had great coffee, was effectively just like taking a break from my amazing millionaire author life, just to relax and enjoy the day.

And that was so nice.

And then today I woke up and it was raining and I kind of felt a little bit rubbish for that.

But rather than have a whinge day, today I got a pick loads of apples last weekend.

So today I made a huge vat of apple cider, which was amazing.

Like I spent all day making that.

I also made...

Can I also just check, do you mean like American apple cider or Indian cider?

It's soft.

It's soft cider.

So it's not alcoholic.

So it's just like hot apple juice with...

I think that's not cider, right?

This is...

It's not really cider, but I don't really know what else.

I don't want to call it apple juice because it's not quite apple juicy either.

Apple something.

I made an apple liquid beverage and that was just like...

Is it like a hot spiced apple drink?

Yeah, like a hot spiced apple drink.

Yeah.

And I also made pumpkin ravioli from scratch for my dinner.

And it just really felt...

I know it really felt like, even though I haven't done any writing stuff, I've been doing like admin things.

But if that's not like a millionaire author weekend, what is?

just out with friends, walking, making delicious food and drink, and feeling like a million bucks.

If you were a full time author, that would be your weekend, right?

You wouldn't be working 24x7, but you'd be doing like some admin stuff at the weekend, still working on books and kind of being creative and inspiring yourself.

Yeah, so we, I think we haven't talked about it a few weeks, but the like, yeah, Millionaire Author.

What was it?

Where was the Millionaire Author day from?

What was I reading?

Is it from Right to Riches?

It's Right to Riches, yes.

Or could it be from your show with millionaires?

It's one of, I think it's from Right to Riches.

I think it's Right to Riches, yes.

Okay, which I will link in the show notes for the 10 minute time, just in case anybody hasn't read it, but please do read it.

It is a great kind of money mindset book specifically for authors.

And it does say like in there, you know, try and live your millionaire author day, like what your day would be like if you're a millionaire author, and just really give yourself the chance to see that so you know what you're working towards.

And I had it when I was in Corfu, and I like wrote on my balcony, had a massage, I got loads written as well around like have a massage, swimming in the pool, eating delicious food.

And you can do that.

You can like, relax and be a writer, which kind of ties into our topic for today, though it does not sound like it's going to.

So we're talking today about income planning, which doesn't sound like it's going to be a relaxing topic, but for me it is.

So, but with that, we're covering lots of different things such as income diversification, book income, assessing income needs.

Where did you start thinking about this topic?

So what I've been thinking this week is, because I've just been doing like big thinking stuff, is really where do I want to be making money in general?

And so obviously, like book sales, I really want to be my bread and butter.

But I really, really want to figure out a way to have that income diversification, where I've got some passive income coming through.

But also like maybe making money from doing like something else, like providing a course or doing something where I'm interacting with writers.

because I do really like interacting with people.

And like, I love doing this.

And I feel like doing this with other people would be great.

And I guess this is all going to come back round to like how we think about money and what we think we should be charging for.

So I will ask you the same question before we get into this.

How have you been thinking about this this week?

So at this topic, as was revealed when I was looking through various places, I keep notes on business things.

This topic has been on my mind for ages, and I have had the same kind of few thoughts and like, you know, plans about it over and over again without reading.

I was repeating the same thing.

And I sort of hadn't really, I sort of couldn't even think of like why we got to the list this week.

I wasn't feeling very inspired by it.

And then my current kind of businessy book that I'm reading is Chill and Prosper, which I picked up thinking like, I'll read that, you know, and I'll pick that up for this topic.

And Chill and Prosper, if anyone doesn't know, is by the same person that wrote Get Rich, Lucky Bitch.

It's Denise Duffield Thomas, who's australian and is in the general business space.

So not author specific, but a lot of authors recommend her.

And I've read this book and it's big.

So I've kind of picked up a few times and just made a bit of a dent in it.

But I thought I'll try and pick up again this week.

And it's interesting and it does feel really like something I need to hear again and again.

And her big philosophy is like people conflate hard work and earning money.

Like they put too much emphasis on the earning side of it.

You should make money because you deserve to.

And that's really helpful.

That's kind of what I was hoping to get out of her book.

But then just kind of as a little side thing, she mentions this money archetypes quiz that she is, you know, always a, I don't know, you know, one of the archetype system, sacred money archetypes, which sounds a bit woo, a bit too woo for me, I would say.

But I was like, you know, when I was just like right in the right mood to do it.

And I love a self-assessment quiz just as much for like the way it makes you think about and reflect on the results as much as whatever it tells you.

So I was like, oh, perfect.

It was like Friday morning, I was off work.

I'd got, you know, a day of kind of things to be doing, not writing.

I had like got a day of like sort of admin, but also process stuff to be doing.

So I was like, oh, perfect.

I'll do this.

And I'll give this a try and see if it brings up anything useful.

And it felt like such an epiphany.

Like, so you can do the quiz and I'll put a link to it.

It's behind a an email collection page.

So, you know, sign up to or don't if you know, you can also unsubscribe.

But you have to sign up something to get into the quiz.

And but it's free.

I think you get something like 28 questions, kind of up your relationship to money.

And it's one of those things that we just don't think that much about.

Like, you just take so much for granted because everyone in your family thinks the same way.

Not everybody, but like in your immediate family, they do because that's how you get that mindset.

And, you know, you have money is such a kind of, especially in the UK, like an unspoken of, but often spoken of thing.

So you get such a regular reinforcement of like the right way to think about money, that you just don't question it.

And so going through this quiz, I answered stuff and of course, it's just, you know, obviously, this is what I think, obviously, so everyone thinks.

And at the end of it, it gives us archetype and just reading it, it felt like such an epiphany.

Yeah, like genuinely epiphany.

Yeah.

So you do the quiz and it comes out with one of these seven archetypes.

And, and you know, it's sort of arbitrary, whatever they are, but it's just a way for you to like look at them.

And I think the thing that it told me, it's not really a thing that it said that was interesting.

It was, but the thing that it that was interesting was the way that I felt in response to it.

I felt such a sense of relief.

So my archetype described me so well.

And in a way that I had always, it described the things that I'm always like kicking myself over.

And it was about like, I...

And they're good and bad things, but good and bad things sometimes kind of cause me self-sabotage.

I always think there's more money, like, and not in a way that I even have that much money.

I just believe that magic money will appear.

And often it does for me.

Like this is also, this is the negative side of it.

Like often, I just think money's gonna appear and it just does.

So I never feel that stressed about it.

And I'm terrible at saving if I'm not saving for a thing, because, you know, it's suspending.

Life is for living.

I want to die with like 20 pounds in my bank and no ice cream in my freezer.

That is my life philosophy.

I'm not saving for my old age, because in my old age, I'll be old.

It's too late for me then.

I want to have my fun now.

And also, again, that's been reinforcing me by the fact that I have a chronic illness.

It means that I struggled to travel.

Like I was struggling to take a long time off and travel now because I need to take some vacation.

And I did so much adventuring and traveling in my 20s and 30s.

It's just like, yeah, I was correct.

I was correct to not do the sensible long term thing.

And anyway, so this this kind of money archetype is all about things like that.

So I had this archetype that was kind of making me reflect the fact that I think these are like uniquely bad things about me, that I am a fritterer, right?

This is a word that's been used a lot about me.

I'm a fritterer.

I don't have long term thinking.

I genuinely don't like and I find it unreasonably boring, like putting sensible systems in place.

It makes me feel like I'm dying.

Which I often think is so counterintuitive because I'm such, I love hard work.

Like I really, really love dedicating myself to things.

And I have done really difficult things in my life.

So I find it almost annoying about myself.

I will just have to do a thing that will take me maybe half a day.

But it's so boring that I put it off forever and I hate myself over it.

And doing this money archetype thing just really made me think about like, there's no benefit to constantly beating yourself up for what you don't want to do.

And that the way you're not going to do things.

And I think so much in self publishing is, you know, there are many different ways to do it, but there are a lot of people shouting loudly about certain ways to do things that feel like you have to do all these things.

You have to do, you know, ads, you have to do all these processes.

If you're going to do ads, you have to do it this way, where you check it once a day and you have 7,000 ads going.

And it makes my stomach hurt.

Like the idea of doing that, I'm like crunching over and like hunching over right now.

just the thought of that feels my nightmare.

And I was like, you know what?

I'm never going to do it.

I'm just not going to do that.

So why don't I just stop beating myself up for not being a person that's going to do that and just find the way to make it work for me?

And we've said this many times in recent episodes, kind of about like different things like social media, about like I'm really ready to let go of, this is the way you should be doing things.

And I'm ready to find the way that like, I am going to do it.

So it's a long way of coming about it, but like it really feels like for me, a lot this week has been not where I'd expect it to be.

I'd expect it to be like, sit down, make a list of your income and like how much you need and where you're going to get it from on your diverse stream.

No, what I really thought about was like, I need to look at all those things through the lens of what am I actually going to do?

How would I actually spend and make money?

Yes.

Yeah, I think it's so true that the quiz was, it was so true.

I actually felt like, did everyone get this answer?

Is everyone getting this answer?

Yeah, it was, it's crazy.

And you're right, because I always see what everyone else is doing.

And you tend to think like, I always feel personally, if I see people doing all of these things, that I think I should be doing, but I know that I would hate to do, it makes me feel like maybe I shouldn't be a writer then.

Maybe I shouldn't be an author.

because there are people-

Or even an author or writer, like you shouldn't be a self-publisher.

Right?

Like I'm a bad business person, so I shouldn't do this.

One of the things that I love that other people do is things like they go, they host like book signing stuff, or they'll go and try and get their books put in bookshops, or they'll self-publish and then try and get an agent at the end of it, as they're like, that's what they were doing it for.

And whenever anybody says that that's what they're doing, it does make me feel like I don't want to do those things.

So maybe I'm like, I'm wrong.

It makes me feel like, it's like that old feeling of when you were a teenager and you feel like you don't fit in quite to the mainstream kids at school.

And you kind of, like, it's just a horrible feeling.

I just, I've always felt that all my life I didn't quite fit in.

And as an adult, I don't feel that anymore, but those things make me feel like that again.

And it's so peculiar.

So for the quiz results that I got for the archetypes, it's so true that there was all I got was, I'll say the title, because I know we've not really mentioned what the title is, but I got the ruler, which is...

It's weird because I think it doesn't really reflect what the type really is.

I think it's a great name for it.

So yeah, tell us a bit about the ruler.

because mine was the Romantic, which I think is a very good name for it.

because it's like, it really just like, I just want to live in luxury.

And like luxury can be anything that you think it is.

Like it can be cosiness, it can be expensive things.

But I do not want to be living a hard life.

So for the ruler, I think the ruler is effective with the answer that everyone with ADHD must have got.

I'm not even joking.

It's effectively just like the diagnosis of ADHD.

It's like every idea you have, you think that's like, that's the money making idea.

You think that everything that you have ideas for businesses stuff is gonna make you the millions.

You see what other people are doing, you want to help them make millions.

Like taking on multiple projects, opening multiple businesses.

This is my life.

It's very you.

And it's so funny because-

You know what I love is like so, I was gonna say like Denise Stefferson, she also, I think her main one is Roller and I think her second is Dramatic.

And in the videos that she makes about these archetypes, she starts singing a song that she gets so carried away with that is she starts singing a song and she's like, I should make a music video of this.

I should turn this into a real song.

And then she does make a music video of it.

Like she's so, it's like so light hearted and like a fun way to really embody like, this is what the types are.

I would never do that, right?

To me, that would be like-

I was dancing around the kitchen to that.

It's a fun idea.

It was very catchy.

But like, I would be like, it's a fun idea, but I don't, I only, I mentioned the idea part of it.

I would never mention the execution of it.

It's such a tangent.

And that's what a ruler does.

Every tangent, every idea seems completely logical.

Like, oh, that's great.

And that, obviously, as the downside of being that sort of person is that you just, just end up following so many paths and like going down every rabbit hole.

You forget where you started and you forgot what the actual idea and the plan was.

And even like the original feeling that you were trying to conjure or chase after has gone.

And it's, yeah, it's a very difficult mindset to have because you feel like every, every idea, the next idea is the one, the next idea is the one.

So you are just constantly chasing that.

And as much as I think it really is beneficial, particularly when you're writing, I think that's a great thing to have as a writer because it just means that I'm always ready to jump into the next project, which I think is a good thing to have.

I know a lot of self-publishing is about agility, right?

That is like the big benefit you get from being in India is agility and the industry really rewards that.

I think the thing is about making sure that you are taking advantage of the positives of the way that you think about it, about money and kind of business in general, and not letting yourself get hung up on the things that are not to your advantage.

Yeah.

So I think I still got a lot of thinking to do about it.

And Chill and Prosper is such a good book, like really goes into detail about these things.

And she talks about a lot of really concrete examples of things that she's done, that she's made mistakes and that she's like, you know, if I had known what I know now, I would never have done that.

And that it was a mistake for this reason.

And she's got a lot of personal case studies from different people who have, because it's like a second edition of the book.

So she's got a lot of personal case studies where people have read the book and then kind of given very specific examples from their lives related to it.

So it's really a great read and a big book.

It's not cheap.

You know, it's one of the expensive ebooks, but actually I'm very much loving it.

And it's exactly what I need right now.

And even just the message of like not having to work hard for money, it feels like something that I need to hear again and again.

Yes, because I think like, I love, it's so funny, like you know, like people have this idea that being a writer is so easy.

You write a book, you sell a book, you make money.

And then we all know that that's not what happens, but that's what we want to happen.

Like that is the dream is the lie.

And I really do believe that there must be a middle ground where you do feel like you are just writing the book and putting it out and making money.

And the other stuff doesn't feel like such hard work because you've got processes in place.

So I am aware that that's what I want to happen.

I just know that I'm not there right now.

But I guess after doing like my archetype thing, and then you get a list of the other things that come up.

I think it was like she said that the top three ones that you get are the most important.

And yeah, my top three are incredibly specific about my determination to make money.

Like my constant want to create things and get excited about them and find the right path to my financial success.

But then one of my other ones is, and I've talked about this before, is about how I actually don't like spending money so much.

And so that is quite a hindering thing.

And I guess like spending money is a big thing, but also like, and this is like a big thing that I want to talk about, asking for money feels like a big thing as well.

So I would really love to set up some ways to make money on the side of books, like downloads and things on my website, and be able to feel comfortable asking for money for those things.

But I don't feel like I can.

And I don't know what that is.

Yeah.

And I think that is just like, it's gonna be a real variety of things, right?

Different like mindset, your experience with money, the way that you view yourself as an expert in things.

because yeah, we've talked about various kind of resources we could make for the podcast.

I have definitely got a list of things I could do.

And I was also thinking about this.

So I think, you know, I have done tons, of course, and like done lots of resources that have been really useful and often just like a really the right workbook at the right time is great.

And I'm in fact, just at the point in Chenoplast, where she's talking about pricing and her big things like don't price by committee.

What you want to do is like, only try and figure out who your customer is and what they will pay at the time that they need the thing.

So people might say, oh, I'd pay about $20 for that.

But actually, if you're desperate, you know, and you know, a fixer or grub from you have, you might pay $100 for it.

And there's kind of the only way to figure that out is often by asking people, when you were desperate, what did you pay for this?

And I've tried people who did it in the past.

And it is tricky because yeah, I think there's lots of like, from doing this podcast even, we have to make a lot of systems and lists and like plans and like really articulate things that I wish someone else had articulated that I didn't have to go and reinvent the wheel on.

And you know, we could make workbooks and courses and things like that based on things that we have researched and thought about and taught.

And I, you know, we were talking about this before, like I, like you really love doing this podcast, like the way that we articulate things and the way that we kind of learn through teaching and teach through questioning.

And I think, you know, I've worked for a long time in education and really like that and would like to do something related like courses or coaching.

I don't really know quite what shape that would take, but like I think I, I am really good at it.

Like I'm very good at tutoring somebody on their specific issue and we're your teacher for coaching.

But it feels like, who am I to do that?

It's the block.

Who am I to do that and not to do it for free?

And like, there's people that you see out there who do courses that they charge plenty of money for and who are they to do it?

just somebody who is more confident than me.

Yeah, I think it is like confidence.

And I don't know, I have definitely paid for courses, but because I'm a kind of a scrimper with money, I'm less inclined to pay for courses, but I definitely 100 percent have downloaded people's workbooks and things for a couple of quid here and there.

because it seems so cheap, why not?

If it's the price of an ebook or the price of a coffee, I will easily part with my money and say, yeah, I'll download the PDF and maybe I'll look at it, maybe I won't.

If I will do that, then other people will do that.

I guess it's just, I feel like I don't want to, I don't want to be regurgitating what other people are already doing.

Yeah, but it's often like the way that you articulate it.

So if you really have a clear sense of like who your audience is.

So if you know, you know, maybe you only want to appeal to people who also have ADHD.

Like I recently bought a planner for a friend whose birthday it just was, who is a creative person with kind of ADHD tendencies.

And I was like, oh, I just saw this and I was like, you know what, I need to present this person, it's exactly the right person.

Like I looked through it and it was beautiful, right?

And it was really beautifully made.

And I was like, they will really love this.

And I bought this for them and it's like, you don't have to be doing something 100% unique, but if you're doing something that really fills a need, then great.

And like, can you find a way to kind of articulate exactly what you're doing?

But the problem that I have with this, and kind of a bit broader than that is that takes time.

And like marketing, I think will take time.

So it's like, I already don't spend enough time marketing my books.

Do I want to not spend enough time marketing the courses that I make, the workbooks that I make?

That just seems like another thing to be doing.

So diversification, I feel like, is a tricky topic.

Yeah, it is.

So I was looking at, I think I've looked at several times recently, is diversification options.

And one option I have is, something that I was doing last year was freelancing for somebody who I had freelanced for before and she paid very well because in fact I'd given her a rate that basically was like, I didn't want to do the job, I didn't want to do the freelancing because I didn't really have time.

And when she said, what's the rate?

I named a rate that I thought she would say no to.

And if she said yes, I would not feel super resentful.

And she said yes.

And so it's plenty of money.

But it was exactly at my day job.

And I really work four days a week for a reason.

I don't want more day job jobs.

I just, I would just not do it.

And I wouldn't ask for more work and I wouldn't chase up and I, you know, I wouldn't chase the deadline and things like that.

It's just like, and that's not like me.

Like I'm a very diligent person normally.

It's like that felt like such a block.

So it's just like, I, I feel wary of like, making more of the work that I don't want to do to make money.

It's like, I could just do my day job then I already have a diversified income because I have a job, it covers all my bills.

My income is really diversified.

I think people talk a lot about this, like your day job is, is a source of income diversification.

And one thing that I definitely would do before quitting my job is either reducing my days to a solid like two to three days a week, or doing freelance work for that job.

because I know that I have a long history.

I have a lot of projects that they would give me that I would work on.

I would not feel like it will be a struggle to make money from doing that.

So that also feels like I already have that income diversification in place.

And I'm very wary of picking up things I just wouldn't do.

Have you thought about other specific streams and whether they work for you or not?

Yeah, so in my day job, I don't really do this anymore because I'm a kind of transition into something else.

But in my past role, I did a lot of website stuff, so specifically WordPress.

I could build WordPress pages and do updates and things like that.

So I always thought, I could offer that service to writers if they needed updates on their website.

So I wanted things tweaked and they weren't quite sure how it all worked.

I can pretty much turn my hand to any website thing, because I've done it for so long.

I could figure it out.

But I do do that for somebody at the moment, not a writer, just as the little side gig.

And I'm the same as you.

I kind of don't...

I like doing it because I like tinkering around with websites.

Like, I really enjoy it.

But like, I don't I don't know, I just don't...

it's just extra work.

I think if I had this, if I had a specific day that I did it, it wouldn't feel so bad if I just had like, on Mondays, I do this and I don't write, I just do like admin stuff for the people.

That wouldn't be so bad, but it's not, it's just not fun.

It's not the millionaire lifestyle I want to be leading.

Yeah, and I don't need it.

You'd have to pick up more of that.

So you're working more than ever, writing less than ever, in order to at some point quit the day job.

And it's like that transition period where you're doing more of everything feels like I'm lumbering myself with things I don't want to do.

And I'm not going to keep doing.

Yeah, it would be like taking on work, knowing that at some point I'm going to drop the work.

And that feels like kind of a bit too fidgety.

One of the things that I was real...

Yeah, exactly.

One of the things that I was considering.

So last year I ran a writing group and it was like a side thing for NaNoWriMo.

Like I knew I was going to be planning a book and writing a book.

And I asked some of my followers and writer friends if they wanted to do that with me.

And there was a small group of us and we did it together.

And it was fun.

And I'm doing it again this year, but kind of like taking a step back.

So I'm creating workbooks instead of like doing a lot of stuff.

I'm kind of trying to streamline it.

So it's like to download this workbook, download this.

Here's like a link to an Excel spreadsheet where you can fill these things in.

So I'm currently working on that at the moment.

I'm doing that for free, but that's something I could charge for.

And right now I'm not charging for it because it's kind of, I guess it's like in beta phase.

Like this is going to be a community.

You can get testimonials from that.

If you're going to say that you're going to get testimonials.

Yes.

So I'm going to be doing that this year.

And hopefully, like the things that I do, well, people will find it really helpful.

And then I'm hoping, fingers crossed, if that works out, it wouldn't have to be a once a year thing.

It could just be a package that I have all the time.

And then maybe I do it live once a year.

So like every October and November, I will do that with other people.

But then for the rest of the year, that's just a product that I have, that you can self-guide your way through.

So I'm kind of leading towards doing that, because that feels like the best of both worlds for me.

I want to be involved in doing stuff with people.

I want to talk to people about the process.

But I also don't want to all the time.

I do want some things to be completely like, what?

Have at it.

I'm not available right now.

So that's kind of my epiphany this week.

I like the past two weeks when I've not been working, and I've just been thinking about this.

At first, I was thinking like, I don't think I have the energy to even do that this year.

But I've kind of forced myself down the road because I think that me hesitating was a fear of opening myself up to a business idea.

Even though I love business ideas.

It kind of was, I just had to go through this process of trying to figure out what it was that I was hoping for it to be.

And I have figured out that's what I hope for it to be.

I hope for it to be a product and a community that will kind of just work itself out.

I think there's so much value in that.

And it's really tricky to do that sort of business idea because you think, like, well, couldn't everyone do this themselves?

Like I'm going to retreat next week, which is like a retreat that I just have a very organized friend who is doing it.

And I also, I organize retreats to my house.

I have friends come here and do it.

And we were talking about doing a retreat.

So it's like, I find it absolutely not, not even vaguely like bat an eyelid worrying, like the idea of organizing a retreat for a dozen people.

I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I can do that.

just I'll organize it.

I'll put a spreadsheet together.

Like I'll tell you how much it's going to be.

And these are the dates and I'll book everything.

It does not bother me at all.

I've booked plenty of retreats people.

But I know that not everyone is like that.

So like, kind of as an example, I've been thinking of recently, I sang at my parents wedding a couple weeks ago.

And I put it in my newsletter and I mentioned a few friends and like, the response constantly is like, I could never do that.

I could never do that.

And it's just like, didn't...

Why?

Right?

And I guess it's fine.

Like I get that people are different.

Like my thing is like, I would never even consider saying no.

Like it was it wasn't like, oh, I love showing off.

It was just like, yeah, of course, I'll figure out a way to make it fine.

I will make that work.

And I but I think that is not common mindset.

No, no, I definitely have to think a lot of people are attenders and not not all yes.

Yes, it's a kind of sort of trickster.

Not a combination of money go right back to the beginning.

Where did I start with this?

Where I've ended with this today was figuring out that like, actually, what we need to think about is the the gay Hendrix books, like the genius on the big leap.

What you need to do to think about like where to get the money is like really make sure that you're looking in your genius zone, because I think there is such a danger to working in your zone of excellence, and I do it, and I am so tempted to it.

So your zone of excellence is, so he says you got four areas, right?

And there's two that like, you're really rubbish, I don't ever do it.

One that you're finer and you could improve if you had to, but fine.

One is your zone of excellence, and that is the most dangerous zone.

That is the stuff that you are really great at.

That at work, everyone comes to you and is like, oh, you can do this.

And you get praised for it, you get given raises for it, and you're really good at it.

But, it's not your genius zone.

And your genius zone is like the thing that you would do it for free.

You feel great doing it, and you're just in flow.

And, you know, people would pay you millions for it, because you're just so good at it.

But to you, it feels like nothing.

It feels like so easy.

It feels like what life should feel like.

And that, sort of coming back to mindset, is like, that feels too good.

because, again, this is the part of the big leap book, is like this upper limit problem, where you're telling yourself, like, that can't possibly be right.

I can't possibly feel that good and get paid for it.

So that must be dangerous.

I'll stay away from that.

I'll just do the stuff I'm excellent at, because that is monetizable and not a risk.

And I spend so much of my life in my zone of excellence.

Like, my whole job is excellence, right?

Like, I do a lot of stuff that not everybody can do, that I get a lot of positive reinforcement for and I'm well paid for.

And I occasionally do stuff in my genius zone.

And I haven't had it for a while, but I had a day this week at work where I felt great.

I felt like I really enjoyed the day.

And at the end of it, I was like, where did the day go?

And I used to have a lot more days like that.

And I have recently been wondering, like, why am I so crotchety about work all the time?

Like, I haven't always felt this way.

Am I just getting old?

Am I being resentful?

Am I being ungrateful for the job?

It's like, no, no, I just have had a few days.

So this day, this week, really certified for me, like, that is part of my genius zone.

And the thing I was doing was, I was developing this new product we're going to make, which is so, like, conceptually complicated.

You have to really kind of pull together dozens of different kind of strands of understanding and lots of research and lots of thinking about it.

And like, lots of, like, it's like three-dimensional chess trying to figure out what are we going to do and how are we going to do it?

And who's it for in the way that we do it?

All these things are up in the air and I have to decide them.

And it felt so satisfying just to like think and like tessellate these ideas together all day.

And I'm good at it.

Like I'm not even good at it.

I'm a genius at it.

And I don't know many people that can do that.

And but to me, it feels like the best way of being.

Yeah.

And how I was going to say, how do I monetize that?

I think there's danger to that.

There's danger like leaping right into, how do I monetize that?

because you kind of then start to shut down very like critically, you start to like narrow your focus of view.

So I'm really trying to kind of start tying together the idea of the like chill, chill and prosper attitude.

So like, what do I find relaxing and easy?

That is also something I'm really good at.

And I'm not necessarily trying to think about a concrete way to make money for it.

I'm just trying to let myself focus around it.

because I've got a list of like things I have found on various organizational lists around my house of like ways I've thought about making money.

And the things like freelancing, this other job, freelancing for my day job, tutoring, copywriting, like rent out a room for an Airbnb.

And it's like all those things I don't want to do, and they would feel like work, and they wouldn't bring in that much money.

And I think I'm just not thinking big enough.

So I want to think bigger and I want to think around, yeah, things like creativity and retreats and courses and workshops and like things that I would find easy.

I just don't have the like the it's better go and go and do it.

But I would find it easy and B would be really good at it.

Like it's it's what I do.

Like it's yeah, that's what I'm like, this feels like an easy conversation.

And I have conversations with other writer friends who always say then they come away like, I feel so inspired of that conversation.

I was like, yeah, that's that's what you should feel.

That's me.

I'm inspiring.

But it does just feel like I I enjoy that and I'm good at it and it's not everybody is.

No, you're right.

And I think it's it's kind of like when we talk about being like having a millionaire day and things like that, it's all of these things like there's so many things up in the air when you think about it.

But I really love to really imagine who I think I'm supposed to be like, what's my final form?

What does my final form look like?

What does she do?

How does she feel?

And like what's she comfortable doing?

And that is really like, I feel like every step that I'm taking at the moment is leading me towards that person.

But yeah, it's just this like, this is the one.

It's always the one.

But this feels like one of the pivotal parts to get to that place is to figure out what my business looks like when it's not just selling one, effectively one product.

obviously, there are multiple products, but just like, but one thing.

I don't want to be just a one thing person because like I said, like I am a ruler in terms of this archetype, this money archetype thing is like, I know that I love coming up with business ideas, and I love coming up with projects, and I want that to be a part of my future.

I want that to be a part of everything that I'm doing.

So it's just like, yeah, trying to, I love that, like the genius thing, like, yeah, what is my genius?

My genius is just my enthusiasm.

I think that is true, right?

I think that's part of it, because last week we were talking about social media, and your social media posts that are just you making, like, lip sync videos.

just being silly.

Yeah.

They're so engaging.

Like, I'm a silly goose.

You know, but that is a thing, that I think that not everyone can do.

Not everyone can kind of seem inviting and light and warm and, and encouraging in the way that you do.

There's definitely a thing, I think, I don't know if Gohendrix talked about it or other people talk about it.

About like, ask 10 people in your life, what they think is like the special thing about you.

And then kind of go from there.

because I was thinking about this for you earlier.

I was like, oh, I think the thing about you is just your like, I wouldn't even say enthusiasm is the way that you just make things seem doable.

Like, whatever I suggest or whatever we talk about together, without seeming like flipping and being like, yeah, whatever, you have like a, yeah, we can do that.

Like, yeah, but it will meaningfully happen.

Like, it feels very possible when talking to you.

Yeah, that's my, I mean, that's effectively why I got hired at my job that I'm in now, is because when I walked in, my boss said to me, who wasn't my boss at the time, like, can you do any of these things?

And I was like, yeah, I can figure that out.

He was like, yeah, hired.

That's all he wanted to hear is somebody who's like, yeah, sure, I'm sure I can figure it out.

And that's my whole, that is my whole shtick in life is, I really honestly believe, I say this all the time to my boyfriend, I think I could do anything other than like brain surgery and like doctor stuff.

I think I could do brain surgery.

I think I'd be fine.

I mean, I've watched enough Greys, you know, and just like wear some goggles and just, I don't know, just slice and be like, I'm done, I'm out.

But yeah, I really honestly, wholeheartedly think that I can do anything.

I feel like, and I don't think this is true, but I feel like I could fly.

And I think I said this before, I feel like the physical possibility exists in my body.

Yes, I honestly, I'm like, I know I can't fly.

I feel like I could fly.

I feel like I actually said that to my sister recently, we were walking down the street and I said, wouldn't it be really weird if I jumped and I flew?

because I felt like I could.

Yeah, I think it's because I am sure I can like, and I do sometimes, well, this is like the 90s child in me from watching too much stuff like Sabrina and the craft and stuff.

But I will like try and move things with my mind.

I'm like, I'm sure one day it's going to happen.

And I'm not going to miss out.

Yeah, like I'm never going to miss an opportunity to think like, can I make my tea cup move?

Who knows?

I imagine it happening.

One day you guys are going to be wowed by what I can do.

You know, she did it, she finally did it.

Yeah, I think as well, I also think people would not be surprised if we could just fly.

Like if we just flew, they'd be like, yeah, okay, I can see that.

It would make sense.

If I told people that I could fly and then I did, they'd be like, yeah, if anyone was going to fly.

I mean, I wouldn't fly high because I don't want to scare the heights.

But like a couple of meters off the ground.

Yeah, I think people would be like, yeah, that attracts.

That attracts me.

Sure, if anyone was going to, yeah, it would be you.

Yeah, I think that's interesting.

I think that's like, that's our archetype, right?

I think like, I genuinely feel like I could fly.

Yeah, what is that?

just delusional.

It's not, right?

You could do loads of things.

Yeah, yeah.

I think what I really struggle with is like, I feel so powerful in ways like that.

And yeah, I'm not out here making a course.

And like, you see people like, like Denise Duffield-Thomas, right, who did The Children Prosper.

Like, yeah, she's not innately a better person than we are.

She's not innately like more knowledgeable or clever.

She is just got a bit more, like, a little bit more confidence.

I don't know what it is.

I don't think it is that.

I think I can flush.

Yeah.

I think that this is the epiphany that we've been waiting for all along.

because that's, the best of our income is quite easily with that.

People are paid to see that.

Yeah.

Like, watch out, guys.

There's going to be a YouTube video coming real soon.

Oh my gosh.

It's like CGI.

It's like.

Yeah.

I'm picturing us like the ants in, like, Practical Magic, like, jumping off the roof.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I could.

I 100% could do that.

100% could do that.

I'm so sure I could jump out of any window.

Yeah, I would use it on how I would jump out of my room like that.

Yeah.

It would be for a slow descent.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's really a very interesting thing because we, you and I do often have very, very different, like, where we come at things in very different ways.

We're very similar and yet very different.

But, but this is like one thing I think where we, this is obviously is, this is, oh yeah, this is our crossover.

In our Venn diagram, this is it.

High Flyers.

And I'm so glad.

Yeah, I'm so glad that we got this on the podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So everyone keep a lookout for our High Flyers course.

But a lot of people who say they listen to this podcast talk to me specifically about like the way they feel afterwards.

Like specifically, they feel like they are in this conversation filled with our enthusiasm and then they feel like after they stop listening, they can go in, do something, they feel energized to do something.

And I think again, that is, that's not a thing that anyone can make you feel.

A little podcast I listen to where I don't feel that way afterwards.

I feel like, oh, that was fun.

And then I go on my day or I feel intimidated by what they've said.

And I think we're at the stage now where we can start thinking about, like, how do we practically spread our message of High Flyers Academy to the world?

because people want that.

People appreciate the feeling as well.

Like, and I think we are gatekeeping it in just this one podcast week.

Sorry.

Yes, soon we will have our own TV show and you will be on it.

Yeah, we'll be going live.

Yeah, we'll be flying into a city near you.

Yeah, and I'm doing this live.

No, I think it's really nice that people say that they feel, like, enthused by what we're doing and what we're talking about because we do it.

Like, that's the thing.

We, whenever we get together, whenever we do the podcast, and we always talk before we start doing this, before we start recording, it's just like, it's never, we never, like, have to get into it slowly.

It's never like a, like a slow build up.

It's just, we're always just straight, straight in to the point where we have to, like.

Yeah, we have to press record.

I was thinking about my genius.

So I was like, what?

because I talked with them recently, like I did not really have time to add this to my week in no way that I think I'd have to spend an extra like one and a half, two hours a week doing another thing.

But it doesn't feel like work.

It feels like all I have to do is show up.

And the conversation we have, it flows so easily.

And I know that there's no way in which I need to like prepare myself emotionally, like you do for a phone call, or for like a work meeting.

There's nothing that we are just straight in chit chatting about like, whether we could, I mean, we can fly.

The fact that we can fly does.

Yeah, the fact that we officially definitely can.

I don't think I've ever heard anybody, no one has ever, ever like said that they think the same as that.

Like no one, everyone always looks at me like, I'm weird.

Yes, exactly.

This is it.

Yeah.

I can't wait to fly.

That's our tribe.

It's like people who secretly think like, think they can fly.

Yeah.

It's just.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm scared about the sort of people.

It's just a little bit of gravity.

Yeah.

It is.

It's just like a fractional too much gravity.

I could just jump and I'm like, I'm gone.

Yeah.

At what point can gravity just do one?

because I feel like at some point I'm going to be like, just gravity, just let go.

just let go.

Yeah.

just let go.

That is what it is.

You don't need me anymore.

I just need to be, I'm relinquishing the force of gravity.

Yeah.

You're just one perfect thought away from it.

Like if you just think the right thing.

Yeah.

You could, you could flunk it.

What if I just jump just right?

I'll be like.

Yes.

And then I'm off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I actually, I do have dreams about that, which is probably why I think it.

because I don't dream.

So this can't be a dream thing.

I think it is.

Oh, that's weird.

Have you, yeah.

Have you read The Power?

The Naomi Oldman book.

No.

No.

Oh, A on it.

A B in that it's one where women around the world, they have this like organ in their chest, like just kind of between their collarbones, I think.

And it becomes active.

It's like kind of a vestigial organ and it becomes active again, and they can use it to shoot out electricity.

And they use it to kind of become, and the whole book is about like kind of women use it to rebalance power, and balances will go too far in their relationships with men.

And I do feel like when I read that, I was like, yeah, I think I've got this.

I think I've got this like deep electrical power.

And in the book, some people are more powerful than others.

And I was like, I think I'd be right up there.

I'd be like god hands shooting out.

Yeah, I would be, yeah, I would be the top.

Sometimes I do, okay, this is like pure, like I know we're like closing in to an hour here, but I do, I do.

I think people appreciate it.

I do often walk down the street and think, I could be a god and nobody knows.

Yeah.

Like, people don't even realize that they are this close to absolute perfection.

Yeah.

And it's great when you walk down the street feeling like that, it's such a good feeling.

And that's how I want to feel all the time.

Like, I feel like that is the person that I'm for coming.

That's how I felt this weekend.

Oh, I'm so jealous.

It's so good.

I think I've just had so many good things that be like exactly happened at the right time.

And I'm just like, they're stumbling across my path as though someone is putting them like, yes, more for you, more for you, Matilda Swift, everything for you.

because one thing that I wanted to mention to pop into our show notes is a new Discord.

I don't know what the word for it is, group channel?

Channel?

I think maybe channel.

Yeah, I know.

There's too many different words.

They all have the same words.

She said something at the oldest press conference.

Anyway, a new Discord channel that we, that I just stumbled across on threads, just stumbled across it from reading someone's random thread, complaining about writing.

It's called Indian Authors Ascending.

It just seemed like a great group, but I think I am in a lot of Facebook groups for authors that just feel really hard to engage with.

Often, they're kind of dominated by the same few people, or it's not really this kind of like a transience to the conversations.

Some people are just shouting in to avoid, and then other people are listening.

Anyway, this Discord seems much more interactive and useful.

So I've just joined it though, yesterday.

And there's things in there like monthly goal lists and like daily goals.

And I really like that and kind of be able to see everyone else.

It feels very inspiring.

And there's lots of different like little threads, boards, I don't know what they call them, sections, areas in there for information sharing.

There's a whole part about like improving newsletters that you have to apply to be in and kind of collaborate together on different newsletter experiments.

It seems like just something I would love.

So that is a thing this week that's just stumbled across my path.

I've never heard it before and I'm in.

Yeah.

And just like lots and lots of things feel like they're coming together this weekend.

And then I'm not working next week because I'm on a writing retreat.

So I just feel like I'm not even thinking about work.

I am just meaning out with a life styling, which feels really good.

Yeah.

Very nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that we've that's probably a natural end to this conversation.

I hope that everybody has enjoyed the ramble.

There was some good stuff in there in between the flying talk.

So for next week, we are doing our Q3 review, if you can even imagine the end of Q3, we're going to Q4.

Do you have any thoughts on this right now?

How are you feeling?

I'm feeling great.

Why did I ask?

I'm feeling powerful beyond measure.

It literally says that behind me on my wall, I've written it on my wall because that's how strong I feel.

No, I do feel great because I think my Q2 review felt really disappointing.

I was like, Q1 also felt like, it's too ambitious.

Then Q2 was like, I just carried on Q1 and that felt okay.

Q3 actually think I have tick things off.

There are definitely annoyingly things still lingering on, like ad stuff that I want to have a rethink about, from a way to approach that from a different mindset, maybe.

But loads of stuff on there I have made substantial progress with, so I am very excited to actually sit down and make a concrete plan of where to go next and not have my Q4 just be like, more of the same.

Yeah.

My Q4 is going to be very busy.

But yeah, I feel like my Q3 has been really, it's been like really like off and on.

I've done loads of work, but I haven't really ticked many things off my list.

But I'm kind of okay with what I have done and what I've not done.

And so I'm looking forward to talking about it.

because obviously like setting goals and things is great.

And doing the things is great.

But also you don't have to do the things and being okay with that is also good.

I also think that when we've done reviews before, we have both been surprised by like, I've actually done so much.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I think we will hit that.

I think it's worth us reviewing like things that we didn't actually have on the list.

And how they've gone.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

100 percent.

I've done so many things that weren't on the list.

So that'll be fun to talk about.

So I'm really looking forward to that.

Thank you everybody for listening.

Don't forget to follow us on whatever platform you're listening to.

Yeah.

It's just nice to see our numbers go up.

So make sure to actually subscribe.

Tell your friends and family.

Leave a review.

Not enough reviews are coming in.

So please make us feel better.

Tell us in the reviews if you think you can fly.

And then we'll know you're a real, you're a true one.

You're one of our true believers.

Yeah, so, yeah, catch us on all the places and we will see you and talk to you next week.

Goodbye.

You've been listening to Pen to Paycheck Authors.

Stay tuned for our next episode and don't forget to subscribe to learn how to write your way to financial success.